Composer and sound designer Edmund Eagan has posted an article today at Sonic State, lamenting that electronic instruments are getting cheaper and cheaper, rather than better and better, and that instruments are becoming distractions rather than inspirations.
First Eagen discusses how inspiring he found the Schmidt eight-voice polyphonic synth:
I attended the recent MusikMesse trade show… and….I had the chance to spend some quality time with the Schmidt eight voice polyphonic synthesizer.
In the very short time I explored the instrument, I do know that the Schmidt is an example of a synthesizer that I could dedicate time to, serious musically laden exploration time, and for me that dedication of time is the most valuable asset that I could invest.
But then he notes that the no one is making or buying synths like the Schmidt:
There is a disturbing downward spiral in prices for electronic musical instruments. As a consumer, I don’t see this as a good thing. Rather, it’s insidiously destructive.
Everyone has heard of someone (perhaps even you dear reader) moaning about a $19.95 app, if only it was $4.95. This downward price spiral is beyond ludicrous.
Where is the economic incentive for an instrument builder, software or hardware, to invest that extra time required to build something special, to up the ante, to boldly go, etc.?
There’s a lot of truth to Eagen’s comments.
Few modern synths are constructed like the synths of the 70’s and 80’s. Even a ‘consumer’ Casio synth of the 80’s feels sturdier than many modern synths. And many current hardware synths have only a few knobs and controls, in order to keep costs down.
It would be easy to blame this on manufacturers, but the ‘sweet spot’ for synth buyers seems to be in the $500-$1500 range – while it’s not uncommon for traditional instruments to cost thousands.
What do you think? Are musicians getting too cheap to buy great synths? Or are big ‘monster synth’ keyboards dinosaurs, given today’s technology?
Leave a comment with your thoughts!
I don’t think picking a synth that would sell for tens of thousands of dollars makes a very good argument that musicians are getting too cheap to pay for good gear….
You got to admit, though, it’s a pretty sweet synth!
If not having a spare $30K to drop on an instrument, *any* kind of instrument, makes me “too cheap”, then shit, I guess I’m “too cheap”.
We don’t all have Trent Reznor fuck you money.
Literally all I spend my money on except food and rent is instruments, I just think the issue is most people who are like me and do that, don’t earn very much money!
Goes with everything else too.
When you give the power to decide everything in the world to investors, even the food in our children’s schools turn to poison For a Few Dollars More(just happened where I live).
I’ve spent upwards of $4K building my eurorack rig over the last twelve months, and I know I’ll spend another grand or two in the next few months to “finish” my current eurorack rig, i.e. to fill up the case that I’ve currently got. While I don’t think I’d spend $6K on any single synth, I will gladly put this kind of money into a modular rig.
Well said
It IS well-said, in part because it recognizes that elusive THING Brian Eno described in not wanting certain parts of his MiniMoog repaired. It had its own character, just as guitarists have favorites that fall under their hands better than the next 3 do. Despite all the ballyhoo about builds and updates, its ultimately about a good feel. I use a modest little Korg TR61 and Camel Audio’s Alchemy for a lot of things. Each has a central “personality” that makes them fairly identifiable, but they are also wonderful quick-change artists. The CS-80 had that engaging quicksilver thing going it and many softsynths do as well. The Schmidt is a real beauty, but its not a NECESSARY one. If you have a feel for it, you’ll find a way to make your tools sing. Also, while excessive module buying can be akin to heroin addiction, it doesn’t cause premature death and your wife knows you’re not out banging some waitress. That’s a plus-plus, although she’ll never see a new wave multiplier as being more important than a new refrigerator.
I think you’ve nailed it here. This thing was around $20,000 right? You could buy a complete Buchla 200e and still have money left over to build a eurorack out of everything made by MakeNoise and Tiptop!
Damn that sounds like a good idea, BRB.
Upwards of $4K… so you bought a case and three Cwejman modules?
I understand what he’s saying, but also back in the 70’s when those synths were being made, a very very few amount of people could even own them. I believe part of the whole backlash with rock n roll when punk came about was about that kind of thing, that most people couldn’t just go buy synths and hammond organs and space echos and things of that nature because they were just so much money. And like Ivorywhacker said, a lot of young creative people just don’t have the money. How many CS-80s were even made? I don’t think it was that many. Most people buying them were established musicians. I would say that more than anything resources and technology made things different back then. When the FM synths of the 80’s hit that changed things for a lot of people, and you saw the amount of bands using synths just completely explode because people besides Pink Floyd and Tangerine Dream could buy a synth with the money they saved at their shitty high school job. I would say that the amount of people in general buying electronic instruments has skyrocketed since then so it may seem that way, but there are still expensive ridiculous synths for major musicians with money to buy. And also it’s well known now that putting together an insane and extremely integrated and flexible modular synth is easier now than ever, with many times more options than there ever has been. If you took away the cheap shit like microkorgs and stuff, you would just have less kids fucking around but I doubt it would actually increase the sale/demand of uber synths like the Schmidt a whole lot
I agree with your analogy of the 70s. Computers back in those days were the size of houses and cost ten times that! You don’t see people hankering for one of those, or others telling us off for not wanting an ancient building-sized IBM.
I’m not generally one to tout digital over analogue, but if it’s about creativity as opposed to “gear I could have bought if I didn’t have to pay two years rent”. Creativity wins.
I think there is plenty to explore in a $50 Korg Monotron. Music comes from human creativity, not solely from the money spent or time invested in creating instruments. I have nothing against big-ticket synths. I’d be glad to own any of them. I am glad they exist to inspire. I just don’t care for an elitism that insists low-cost instruments are a bad thing. That’s balderdash.
You as musician, need to look for what full fills your requirements. If you don’t have the resources (as I do). i think with a little bit of hope/knowledge and a fraction of the costs of such massive and beautiful synths, you can have what you need. My experience: I’ve made my own 3 oscillator (3 monotrons) with 2 LFo’s, ADRS (DIY) and a Moog filter (DIY Clone) with keys and midi for less than $300. so far I don’t dream anymore of having the $2K minimoog kind of sound/style anymore. and the satisafction of your home made synth…Priceless!
I got this Amazon gift card and picked up a Monotron Delay with it, and man… I can easily sit for an hour playing that thing with headphones without thinking. Just giggling to myself the whole time. I wouldn’t say those little guys are necessarily underrated, because they get a fair amount of praise, but holy cow is that $50 well spent.
Yeah! I love that Monotron Delay even if it produces so much background noise. I can make all those SciFi and horror movie effects with it. And I got it for 39,- Euro. Power without the price. Sometimes I sample it with my TE OP-1 🙂
I agree completely. Coming from guitar “field” I started with Volcas and then added a Blofeld and a Micron. Then saved a lot to afford an expensive synth/drum machine, thinking it was more deep and better, but then after a while I sold it as I felt much more creative and happy with the Volcas, the Blofeld and the Micron. If I could freely afford, I would buy a lot of expensive synths but I am happy with this set up within 1,000 EUR; which is less than the cost of my Fender Telecaster.
I think it’s less a case of people being “cheap” and the fact that in previous generations, advanced synths were simply unaffordable. I’d rather an abundance and a variety of cheaper built hardware, than an elite selection of synths barely anyone has access to.
Something else that’s changed is that in the 70’s and 80’s, synths were new and rare, and having one could get you in the door for gigs.
I think that there are a fre people making decent synths at decent prices, and I believe they’re selling ok – I’m talking perhaps DSI and Korg here for starters, but when you can use a softsynth and they’re cheap on your cheap as chips laptop it’s kinda difficult…
correction – DSI *WAS* an affordable synth maker. Now their cheapest starts barely under $1K street, with most of them well over the $2K mark. I’d love a Pro-2 but I’m not paying 2000 for a glorified monosynth.
the sole exception is the AS1, but its safe to say that one has Pioneer’s financial backing.
While I’d love-ABSOLUTELY love, to buy an expensive keyboard like the one in the article, and would do so should I be able to do so without too much pain, I think many musicians who are not as accomplished or skilled but still enjoy making music, an inexpensive synth certainly has a place in the market. I have keyboards from a variety of price ranges; my PEAVEY DPMsi was expensive when I bought it, yet now something similar would cost far less without hammering my pocketbook. I have keyboards ranging in price-the latest being my KORG microSAMPLER. I can do a lot with it, and know that if I make enough money with it, would like to upgrade. There’s no question I’d prefer to drive a Corvette than my Celebrity, but until I can reasonably afford to buy it, I’ll plug along with the less-expensive-yet-ample tools at my disposal.
He has a real good point but on the other side of the argument there are tweakers and there are peopple making great music. You dont need much to create great music.
I remember that a Jupiter 8 was like 3000 pounds when it was new , a CS80 was like 5000 and wasnt a fairlight 35000 dollars?
only a few people owned them, now hardware synths are in a renaissance
Kord Kingkorg and Volcas, Arturia Minibrute, DSI Mopho and new prophets ( the minibrute and mopho are REALLY sturdy)
There are also load sof others to mention, analogue solutions, the access lines and Nord
since this guy seems to be pretty far out of touch, he’s probably not aware this happened either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_housing_bubble
that might answer some of the more basic questions behind “why dont people buy $8k synthesizers anymore”
The incentive? Their incentive to go the extra mile, sans the financial rewards, should be driven by the desire to create. I make instruments. I make them because I like them. If I go apeshit in MAX/msp and spent months on a patch Im not getting paid for it and I dont do it to make money. I do it to create, Im an engineer of multiple disciplines. I get preachy about it because there are jerk engineers trying to cash in on their brains. Engineering great things on the planet wasnt done for financial gain. The converse is like the misconceptions that slaves built pyramids. There was genius engineering and the will to do it. What the worst engineers dont get is that if you do go the extra mile the gains WILL come. The reason no one wants to pay $20 for an app is because many of them dont match up to things from 10 or 15 years ago yet these hand held devices are more powerful than any of my music machines up till 3 years ago. Turbosynth, Rebirth, shit….when gigasampler came out….These were awesome mind blowing ideas at the time. The bar was sent high and a decade later the output has become stagnant in its creativity. Lets move to hardware… hardware today is really enjoying SMT boards. We get small, inexpensive instruments that sound great. Standuino is one of the better examples. Highly creative, no doubt anchored by the limitations of the chosen platform. They dont cost much, are fun, and sound great. An Access Virus remains one of the pricier synths, its price has barely changed in 15 years. It sounded great 15 years ago and people bought them. No, no one is buying because its the same synth essential. No mind blowing ideas, you just pay for decades of minor updates….need a new reverb? No prob, wait two years for the update. THATS LAME. In all this time Access couldnt have made a drum machine? A different type of synthesis? TRY SOMETHING NEW AND PUSH THE BOUNDRIES? Nope. Access is the worst offender because they only have ONE FUCKING PRODUCT. Korg has lots of board meetings, marketing, accounting BS they have to go through to get synths out. What do we gear this year? A $150 POLYPHONIC analogue synth in a groovebox format. Not mind blowing but at least they used innovation to fill a niche instead of just shitting out another Electribe… I bought some expensive synths that sound great. You know when my last synth purchase was? 2001… I still have all my gear and wont get rid of it because I dont have to, NOTHING NEW CAME OUT. I’ll be making my first synth purchase in a while this summer….the Volcas… People forget companies went digital because of cost and the trend. Kinda sad though that in terms of sound quality, ignoring analogue vs digital, that my decade old Waldorfs and Emus blow the water out of the fun and playability of even the beloved Minibrute…I dont love it personally. its well known I love my bass station but I dont need a Minibrute at all because it’s monophonic…I had that covered easily and really couldve built it myself if I had the time. So we established that its one note, its a tired concept, and you can have more fun elsewhere. Let go to sound quality. Its just fine. But there are WAY better out there, especially for the money. People arent getting cheap, the companies are just greedy and clueless. Why are we seeing great sounding DIY projects that you can build cheaply that have as much packed into them as commercial counterparts? Elby designs, Meeblip, Mutable Instruments, Standuino, and many more are making exciting, great sounding, fun instruments that are just plain CHEAP. They cost NOTHING compared to a Virus… I dont think anyone would argue the fact a Virus is great, but not $3K great when I could have a Shruthi….That thing gets into Waldorf sounding territory for $150. My rant is done but in conclusion Id say simple. No, musicians are not getting too cheap…its just the corporations have run out of ways to excite us. Luckily, indy companies havent.
But there are financial incentives. I create instruments for myself, and obviously don’t get paid for that. As soon as you start making them for other people; if they don’t take it as is (does exactly what it needs to do for myself), then it all changes. That’s when you spend endless hours doing stuff that you would not be doing otherwise; when it stops finding a place in your priorities. But if it pays the bills, then you can just go ahead an make other people happy.
Umm. Good points made by many. I have nothing against cheap instruments, they help democratize access
to gear and music. However, when I was a young struggling musician with low income, I still took a huge loan (and a huge risk…) to get one really high-end instrument: a Rhodes Chroma. This had an incredible impact on me and my musical developpement. With a lot of practice and experimentation on such a refined instrument (with a sublime expressive keyboard, pedals and controllers, unlimited sound creation potential), I became a much better player and synthesist. I will never regret it. But it seems that most of us sound manglers (including myself) would rather own as many toys (literally) as possible, instead of saving up for the Big One. Gear Acquisiton Syndrome? Nature of electronic music? A bit of both?
How many synths are there like the Rhodes Chroma today? I’m a little envious!
I do think that everybody should allow themselves at least one over the top killer synth, because nothing beats sitting down with a synth that is deep enough to let you do something new every time.
Musicians of all types have always saved up for instruments that inspire them, so I like to see companies make ‘dream synths”. More synths of all types, I say!
First of all: Does an instrument have to be expensive to be inspirational? I have a problem with that assumption. Case in point: Animoog and Camel Audio’s Alchemy Mobile, two of the most inventive synth engines I have ever encountered. Or the incredible Casio CZ-101, if you want to get all retro.
Second: Some people are just cheap, and it seems like a lot of people expect to have for free anything that can be digitized, be it books, music, movies or software. I don’t think, however, any musician would NOT want a Korg Kronos or a Nord Stage. The question they would ask themselves (actually, the question I asked myself) is: In this economy, with the sort of gigs I’m getting, will I make more money if I gig with this three-thousand-dollar fantastic beast? Will I even recoup that investment, and at the end of the day, will I get hired more than if I play my iPad with a MIDI interface?
This is multiple problems mixed together here…
The first one is the approach to music, which isn’t for elite people with large pockets now. Since the arrival of digital age, computers, software and even no little neo retro analog products, music is affordable for a larger audience. Internet, social media and electronic distribution even did help to have more music choices for the listeners. Now everyone can be his own label and send his music on iTunes, Amazon, etc…
The whole old school concept of “Music Industry” hold by few large label, with few large radio/TV channels, recorded in only few large recording studio… all of this is dying and passé. Now small (or even home) studio are well enough to make a complete product from A to Z, with great quality result. No need for very big large expensive console… no need for very big large expensive instruments neither.
Of course instruments such the Schmidt are great… but they don’t have any real market today. For the same amount of money, money can today build their own complete home studio with very decent gear that will allow them to do the job just as well. And depending the kind and type of music, they might even do it entirely in virtual with some software and only 1 or 2 real hardware keyboards.
Since there’s more music choices (because now with internet we can buy music from anywhere in the world, without even living your home), there’s also less money for artists. The “pie” is split by more and more people everyday. When before we had only 40 or 50 records in sale at the time, now we have hundreds and hundreds at the time… just like we also have more and more choices in instruments (both hardware and software wise).
With success of mass market computer such the tablets and smartphones, there’s also more potential customers (musicians) for the manufactures/developers. That’s why there’s so much choices today and also why some old manufacture such Korg, Roland, Yamaha, etc… are clearly targeting the mass market. To do so, they’re re-using their current technology and cheap made products. And to make them cheap, they limit some functions and use some cheaper components.
It then comes down to a point to have almost no workstation keyboard under $2000 with aftertouch… which is clearly sad since the aftertouch is just a tiny $5 ruban captor. But to save this $5 cost, every manufacture are removing it… as well as removing some $10 knobs, faders, pads, etc… which makes the new product less practical, less durable, less great than the product we were used to know 20 or 30 years ago.
THIS, indeed, is an issue, because most of mass market don’t know much about music (because they’re beginners) so they don’t know what they miss… but some real musician users are gonna be left somewhere in the transition. Because in the end, it might not be any “music industry” anymore… at least not in a commercial way like we know it today.
Music and musicians will always exist… but the “commercial aspect” of it… from making music, or making instruments… might fade out. The power of the modern technologies will also help to fade old school instruments out. Does anyone today would spend thousands of dollars in an electronic type writer (even if it’s the best electronic type writer in the world ever)? Simply NO! Today, people just like to buy a “Word Processing” application, regardless if it’s Word, Pages, OpenOffice, or one of the dozen and dozen alternatives ones (including free ones)… Of course, few people will still like to use old school type writer. But for 99% of the users, a simple application will do the job. And people today do have choices, the same way people later will have enough choices to make music… they will only have to pick the application of their choices (and probably few accessories to go along, such speakers, headphone, mic, surface control, etc…).
I know this last paragraph might not get the sympathy from everyone here (mainly the pure retro guys), but in a long run, this is inevitable… Trend and numbers speak for themselves. Musicians are becoming “cheap” because musicians isn’t only few elite people… musicians could now be “everyone”.
This is the most comprehensive and perceptive comments about the presentation music scene I have ever read–our superstar-millionaire paradigm has morphed into everybody making music for nothing but that maybe being a good thing?
Phil, I will read anything else you have written, no questions asked. But even more dear to my heart, it would be nice to get a personal critique of my sophomore efforts from you(?)
http://soundcloud.com/theologynut
How much is a Schmidt? I’d love to own one! Too expensive? Then I’ll go for the Prophet 12 or the Macbeth Micromac (monophonic but sounds great). I love that I have so much choice. Still too expensive? Then I can choose a Minibrute or a Bass Station II, even though they are monophonic, or even something in-between, like a Moog SubPhatty? There’s something for everyone and that’s great. The new Korg $50 synths? Sorry, not interested. I think this is the price point where it affects whether time and effort by builders will go into the next great synth or a quick synth with nothing really new. It’s great that they are around, but after owning one or two, I want to save up for a quality synth that sounds amazing and stands out from the rest.
Ok a few points:
* most of the world is in a recession – a “proper” synth is an extremely expensive luxury item.
* the few countries not in a recession like Australia have distribution issues – massive expense to get a “proper” synth posted over. And little support if something is wrong with it.
* computers and midi controllers are light, easy to pack and therefore a better alternative for bands.
* many “proper” synths out there still lack many of the things that a newbie slash mediumbie would still have to fork out extra cash for – fx racks, arpeggiator/sequencer, pa system/speakers…. The cheap toys probably won’t cut it against a really good synth.
Most of the world is not in recession.
Only one out of every eight countries was in recession in 2012 and of the ten biggest economies only two suffered negative growth last year. The other might not be benefitting from double-digit increases but they certainly aren’t contracting.
Which goes to show how much economic indicators/numbers say about reality! Been to southern europe recently? Or even, uk, nl, france or sweden? Not many people i know currently have that kind of cash to spare unless they are ruthless criminals.
We’re not going to bite on the “Are Musicians Getting Too Cheap To Pay For Great Synths?” flame-bait
– deja vu
So musicians are “too cheap” to pay for a synth that is probably very slow off the production line (it’s one or two guys, just one I think, building these – everything from design to calibration of the oscillators is done by him) and costs $30,000?
The author of the article has his head up his ass.
If you have the cash, sure, go for it and get one! If you’re “on the cusp” financially and already make great music and think such a beast could improve your music (and no doubt, it will!), go for it! But for us mere mortals, saying we’re cheap because we don’t want to drop 30k (the price of a car, mind you) on a single synth, is mind blowing, especially in this day in age where some of the best music is made on a laptop in one’s kitchen. Hell, I think Burial didn’t even have a “proper” DAW when he made his first two albums. Eric Prydz uses just Logic, the Korg VST bundle and the PSP suite of effects. Not everyone *needs* to have the top-of-the-line boutique pieces of hardware to make good music.
And not all music requires the best of the best equipment. It’s not about the equipment at the end of the day. Bach could probably make better music on a little keyboard from Walmart than any of us could on a grand piano.
I think this guy is living in a fantasy world. As someone who has been making electronic music since the 80’s, I’ve seen a lot of changes. But even back in the 80’s, if he’s going to pretend anyone other than pop stars were dropping $20,000+ on a synth, he’s fooling himself. The Schmidt looks fantastic, but my wife would literally skin me alive if I spent that kind of money on an instrument. What value does it offer that makes it cost more than a car? This is what goes through my mind when I am shopping for an instrument… can I justify the purchase because it’s going to end up paying for itself?
Someone else mentioned the global recession, which I think is an obvious reason people aren’t spending as much, but as a professional musician for over a decade, it’s also become much harder for professional musicians to make a living. File-sharing, people being more interested in other media like video games, etc means the amount of records an indie artist can sell isn’t what it was in the heyday.
Face it… the times are changing. And just as we musicians have to adjust to the new landscape that includes file-sharing, instrument manufacturers need to adjust to a market where people’s expectations for prices are significantly lowered thanks to software instruments and budget analogs. Adapt or die.
$30,000 for a synth? Get real man. I could do a music theory degree for that which would undoubtedly improve my music much more than having some decadent luxury synth in my rack.
Say what you will but NI’s Monark combined with their Driver plugin does it for me.
As much as I know that this headline was partly to turn heads (trust me, I blog for a living.) We’re not getting too cheap:
1) Economy is rough.
2) The business has changed. Unless you’re a pop star, you can’t make Trent Reznor money anymore. Ask any of your musician friends, signed or not. Making music rarely pays the rent. Even then, buying cool new gear is tough on the wallet. For someone like me, it works like this: Spend 500 bucks to pay this month’s rent, or spend 500 bucks or more to buy a new synth? Rent, unfortunately, for most of us has to take priority.
3) Even if I did have $20k, why but an instrument like that one? (I know there are cheaper ones, but you used one that runs anywhere from $15-$30k, so we’ll go with that.) That would pay off the rest of my car, pay a recent hospital bill, buy me a pimped out computer, tons of software, high speed hard drives, a decent microphone and treat my room for better mixing. Then I’d still have enough for a month or two of rent, and some left over for the bank in case something should come up.
Uh … who lives in a bubble like that? Because: a) if you have paid any attention to the local or global economy, you will notice that the wage gap prohibits musicians from affording expensive gear. b) manufacturers are in big trouble. Hence cheap gear c) expensive gear is out there, just takes longer to find – but modular gear in particular is really perking along.
Anyway .. also there are no economies of scale in chips, soft synths, memory. You can buy a basic Moog now for $500
The problem with this article’s central thesis is that it implies a false duality, that there are five-figure synths and five dollar apps, and not much in between. This is patently false, as many manufacturer’s price lists will demonstrate.
“Few modern synths are constructed like the synths of the 70?s and 80?s.” Well I should hope so. Ever played an old Pro-One? Terrible build quality despite the great sound. Or how about those ARP sliders that gummed up and snapped off, the Polymoogs with greater than 100% failure rates, EDP gear that broke when you looked at it funny, or those oh-so-high end plastic laminate covered end caps that adorned so much early ’80s stuff. Not everything three decades ago was as well constructed as a DX7. Even my dirt-cheap Minibrute feels more solid than a lot of ’80s offerings from Kawai or Casio and has less plastic in its chassis than a Korg DW series.
Fact is that one’s dollar goes much further now anyway. A Minimoog Voyager costs around half in inflation-adjusted dollars now as the original did when it was first introduced despite having a hugely beefed up feature set. Anything with microprocessors offer massive capabilities relative to cost when put alongside a comparable ’80s synth. And since fabrication has moved (in large part) from western nations to low-cost Asian ones the price of assembly is much lower. I haven’t even touched on the cost savings through SMT. In effect, part of the reason why there are so many sub-$1000 synths is because there is simply no reason to release more expensive ones to anyone other than the boutique market.
Would I love a Schmidt? Sure. But for one tenth the cost of one I can buy a synth with a feature set that demolishes anything built two or more decades ago.
This angers me.
There is no money in electronic music, unless you cover famous songs or sell out and make some meaningless crap.
Musicians are skint. Even a 500 euro synth is a big investment these days when you know it will probably never pay for itself. 30,000 euros is a joke in this day and age.
The best music is often made on the crapiest of equipment. Detroit techno, punk etc Throwaway gear re used and creating dynamic culture changing music. Let the rich have their moogs, etc and let the rest of us enjoy the nastiest of gear to make the best of fucked up electronic music. The synth looks wank and the waldorf wave, beat it years ago.
In 1970-85 there were what? – about 2-3 new memorable synths released per year.
They have similar modules (oscil, filter, adsr, ring, delay), with different patented schematics for the filter section and various oscillator features and connections.
The rest of us had to make do with discarded radios and jigged tape recorders and -2dB noise floor.
Well, this does instil a great love of sound…
Two big differences today from the 70’s are
(a) a hardware synth doesn’t give you something so unique that you can’t get anywhere near it by any other means (let alone a cheap knockoff copy).
(b) artificial sound is not a wildly thrilling universe that very few has explored. There are daily charter trips, everyone has heard lots of synth and sampled sound. It’s available in the background at any hairdresser’s, mostly to mask the street noise.
These are not good things – or bad – it just goes to make the world of sound a different place from 40 years ago.
So what does “the market” offer now?
– Haaken continuum
– Eigenharp
– 10 times more analog rack modules than ever before
– And the very Schmidt synth for the 2 people who both want it and can afford it, so the rest of us can feel small.
On top of that, for the kids with less cash, there is now
– A wide range of $0-1000 studio and synth software that act as cheap knockoff copies of 10-100k dollar studio gear.
How is this not as good as or better than the 70’s?
Eagan comes off as a bit of an elitist there.
download all the soft synths and samples from the torrents
– load them all into your mac or pc that is also running that copy of windows or mac os
you FOUND
– make your great track on a copy of ableton live9
post to it on soundcloud or myspace for free
and then tell me how much money you’re making – ..??
the answer is you’re not making money
because your music has no value
there are no shortcuts
i have been at this for 22 years
and i only started –making money– 4 years ago
you have to buy the tools you use
then learn how to use them
you don’t need a $30K hammer to drive a nail
Are people too cheap today to buy decent computers? Just listen to all the people crying about how expensive Macs are and how they’d rather get a Taiwanese Windows laptop than a rMBP. If you buy a crappy $500 dollar Windows laptop then you shouldn’t complain about cheap synths.
I recently had a job in music retail, and it’s I was shocked at how few of the keyboards we sold had aftertouch. My Kawai K1II from 1988 has aftertouch, and it was only $800 or so. It’s such a shame that the manufacturers don’t give you aftertouch until you buy a flagship out of their series i.e. Korg Kronos The build quality of some of the keyboards seemed light as well. The low end of the Yamahas definitely didn’t seem like they would hold up well on the road.
The Korg M3 has aftertouch, though I guess before the Kronos came it they WERE Korg’s top of the line…
I’ll put it this way: I’ve only seen the NAMM videos demonstrating the DSI Prophet 12 and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I want one. But I know I won’t be buying one for at least 2 or 3 years. Why? $3000 is why. I have a car payment and a mortgage to make every month, not to mention other bills. I recognize that $3000 is a very fair price for that synth. But even it just isn’t affordable for us “cheap” guys. My Slim Phatty was really pushing it in terms of price.
When someone listens to music, all he/she cares about is whether the music is “good” or not. Nobody cares if it is made with millions of dollars/euros or with a cheap guitar or a Casio VL1. All it matters is talent and love for music. Period.
Yes.
None of the musicians i knew in the 70s complained about paying $1500 for a Minimoog, even if though that was like $7 or 8,000 of today’s dollars. We were too excited about getting one. Or an ARP like Zawinul.
And you you think we were rich? Back then, you might have to sacrifice to buy your gear, but you’d play the hell out of it once you got it.
And most of the gear I’ve bought works fine still, close to forty years later. Think one of these plastic microchip digital minikeyboard things is gonna do that?
This is the classic guy gets old and thinks the world is going to shit argument. Don’t get me wrong, old analog synths are nice, but in their heyday they were your only option at being cutting edge. With a powerful computing system you can do things you could never dream of doing with a $3000 dinosaur. And I’m not just talking about plugins, you have reaktor, Max/MSP, MATLAB, C++, Java, and libraries of signal processing theory. You can design audio algorithms that are so complex that only specialized computers can run them. In short, just because some people market cheap virtual synths does not mean people aren’t doing incredible things.
I realize that manufacturers need to make money, but so do musicians so that we can eat and buy their instruments. Much of what musicians do is out of the love of making music. Most of us would do it for free except tht we need to eat and we want new instruments. I think if an instrument manufacturer has any pride, they should make instruments that they love to make and obviously a few that they know they can make money on too…as long as they’re still quality instruments. The problem is GREED. In today’s corporate climate, doing well isn’t enough. You have to break a new sales record every year to keep your sales job. Otherwise head will roll. In most corporations, success is only measured in sales. The same is true for most popular musicians. Success and awards go to the top selling artists, not necessarily the best artist or the best music being made because for one that is subjective, and for another…business executives took over the music business long ago..and ran it into the ground. The average person makes less money than they did a few years ago, and does 2x or 3x the amount of work. More people are laid off and have given up looking for a job, while governments and the media will tell you things are getting better. I’m a musician turned music teacher and I can tell you much of what I see is alarming. Kids throwing ninja stars in the halls, trying to push a police officer down the stairs, lockdowns because of fun violence outside the school, and people with automatic weapons shooting up buses. It may as well be Afghanistan but its the great U.S.A. The knife whether serious or not, said it best, “End extreme wealth”. Enough is enough..because well.. People should be happy enough when they can do what they love and get paid enough to eat, support families and live a decent lifestyle within reason. Sure, I love fancy synths and have owned a few nice ones but everyone’s greed is out of control. We want all these things and a lot of us cannot afford what we used to be able to afford. And yet, if u can afford a synth or an iPad you’ve got a better lifestyle than a lot of people out there. People with no running water, or people in places like Bangladesh where they pay you like $2 a month and beat you if you don’t work fast enough. Manufacturers need to realize that it’s people and not machines who buy their products. If as a successful business you don’t stand on the side of improving the lives of people who invest in your products, or at least stand up for fair and humane labor practices you have to realize that eventually you’ll be slowly canabalizing your own stability. Few people can afford this shit anymore. People need jobs and also on the other side, need to start caring enough to do their job.
I don’t think musicians are too cheap. I think the need is no longer there given what most synths can do. Inherently, electronics get cheaper much more powerful as the years progress. Let’s look at it differently. Instead of calling musicians cheap, how about we call them savvy, because I believe that’s what’s really going on here.
I’ve spent about the equivalent of the price of a Schmidt in synths for my home studio. Would I trade these 23 or so synths on one Schmidt? No f-ing way. My palette would suddenly be quite limited. This idea that how good the music is is directly proportional to the price of the gear is ridiculous. My monotron has been just as valuable to me as my andromeda in terms of the creation of my music. Who gives a shit how much either cost?
In the end, what is more important: the gear or the music? I hope you chose the latter.
So did ANYONE commenting here actually READ the article? The author is commenting less on musicians and more on how instrument manufacturers are marketing themselves and the type of market instruments are increasingly INTENDED to appeal to. And yet EVERYONE is taking this offensively, as if this article somehow means they aren’t musicians… and it’s that offensiveness, if anything, that suggests a person isn’t really a musician (but rather just a consumer).
I think its you who needs to read the article again. He is talking about consumers wanting things cheaply, which doesn’t give the manufacturers the incentive to build more expensive, and therefore higher quality instruments:
“Everyone has heard of someone (perhaps even you dear reader) moaning about a $19.95 app, if only it was $4.95. This downward price spiral is beyond ludicrous.”
Is there some mystical money-induced magic that can be done with a $30,000 instrument that I can’t manage to do with hundreds of hours of work with my $400 DSI Mopho, or my $50 Korg Monotron?
What a load of elitist stuffed-shirt bullshit. And the people commenting here that “you’re not actually making money” – great, you’re why the traditional recording industry is dying its well-deserved death.
And good riddance. Creativity is the reward. If you’ve managed to make a living at it, good for you. Enjoy the spoils. Hopefully you kept your soul and didn’t actually start thinking of art as a business. Some people actually bridge that gap but they’re few. I’d much rather hear what the guy in his basement with his hobbyist modular dream system has to say. I don’t care if he ever makes a dime. And he probably doesn’t expect to. He’s a synthesist because he’s in love with it.
One comical thing overlooked in this discussion is that a fifth of the price could buy so many decent new synthesizers, and used together the textures would beat this decadent synth hands down.
It is great to see a backlash against such a stupidly expensive machines. I am warmed to see people discussing economic social contexts to music and music production, the two are part of each other and the study is called ‘MUSICOLOGY’
From Rock and Roll, Soul,Punk,Skiffle,House,Hip Hop ,Detroit Techno.
‘When we understand the background to our favourite records, we hear them better’
I really love that Schmidt synth, but I could never afford it. I also think that digital sound processing is superior to analog. But I am just a physicist and no keyboard wizard. What do I know?
I prefer my Viscount Physis Piano H1 over analog gear any time. Combined with a Mac. Logic Pro and Minimonsta AU I have no need for a real analog synth.
For the price of one monophonic Moog Voyager I can get multiple iPads with multiple Aturia iMini Apps and a ton of other stuff. No analog sounds that good so I would pay so much money for one voice. If you make a double blind test with ‘real’analog and Arturia Stuff in a mix, heard via PA no one will be able to tell the difference.
This isnt nessecarily true. I think if you endeavour to create sounds on a VA that sound authentically analogue, then you can create a sound that blindly people may not identidy as not real analogue. But you have to consciously strive for it. Listen OMD’s new album, or even Gerogio Moroders new track. They sound like soft synths. You can hear they are not real analogue synths and it most certainly does make them less impactful and more importantly, less human. Thats sound bizarre, I know, but i really do believe that creating music on real analogue synths reveals the Ghost in the Machine. John Foxx’s new music with The Maths is 100% analogue, and it feels alive. Its emotive and its present. OMD’s new album, according to their own gear list, is mostly soft synths, and it lacks soul, it sounds like music made by a computer (sorry guys).
Soft synths are brilliant, and I have them all. They are certainly faster to use than real synths. But they just made me want to own the real thing, and now I have a room full of real vintage analogue synths, I can hear the difference and I can (most of the time) spot music created on soft synths, and thats not a good thing.
I would like to point out a couple “journalistic sins” to Eagen’s comments.
First: he picks the $30k+ Schmidt and $4.95 iPhone apps. Both are corner cases. There is a whole world in between. The Prophet 12 is neither cheap nor poorly built. Moog is still producing some damn fine, and expensive, synths. Clavia has some quite good high-end digital stuff. You can still buy a brand new Rhodes, if you can afford it. And those are only few examples.
Second: you can be as uninspired (or inspired) in front of a Korg monotron as in front of a Schmidt. Build quality is a good thing, but deepness and profoundity of musical exploration don’t necessarily come with it. You can make very uninteresting music with high quality, insanely expensive and super professional rig. You can make very good music with a second hand half-broken guitar and some ludicrously cheap iPhone apps.
Third (this is more related to this article’s coverage of the original post): a 1950 VW Beetle still feels sturdier than many modern cars. Or a 1970 refrigerator compared to modern ones. Or pretty much everything produced more than 30 years ago compared to pretty much everything produced today. Musicians are not getting cheap, the world is. And has ALWAYS been.
cheers,
Aldo
Whats baffling about this is Eagans own ignorance regarding the history of electronic music. It was not the production of priceley synths like MiniMoogs and Arp 2600’s that caused the electronic revolution of the 80’s. It was the introduction of cheap synths like the Korg 700s, Micro Preset, Moog Prodigy and Yamaha CS-15 that allowed bands like The Human League, OMD and Depeche Mode to finally get their hands on synths and make music. Sure, Kraftwerk had MiniMoogs etc, but they came from wealthy German backgrounds, most other people with those kind of synths were prog-rockers who weren’t involved in the evolution of electronic music in any kind of direct way.
So its customers wanting cheaper synths that has resulted in some of the greatest electronic music of all time. Only someone removed from the reality of music creation, or someone who views music on a purely intellectual level would fail to grasp this. It kind of proves that Mr. Eagan, though I’m sure he’s a fine fella, sees the quality of the tools relating directly to the quality the art. This simply isn’t true, its the ideas.
Wait till Mr. Eagan hears what people are going to do with the Korg Volca range a few guitar pedals!
Anyone complaining about the industry right now is just thinking dry narrow, the fact that a blog like this can be kept busy discussing new releases on so many different levels – racks, computers, midi interfaces, iPads, digital hardware and analogue hardware – this is a goddamn golden age! There are more start ups making tiny little products than ever! And the Internet finds them enough customers to actually survive!!! World wide customer base without ever needing to sign a deal with a distributor!
I get paid pretty well in my job, but bills are pretty high these days. I spend about $300 a fortnight on music gear, which is ludicrous! Huge amount of money to be frittering away, but $300 gets me an awesome guitar pedal, two volcas, a zoom R8, a new midi interface or the educational version of ProTools…. I could even wait a month and buy the ms20 mini or any one of the other amazing budget synths to come out the last year.
All true, Even go back a few days to the post about the DIY Arp 2600 (Two Thousand Six Hundred). For under $1500 your going to be able to own a physical clone/replica of a synth that used to cost the price of a car (and does again today). Thats astonishing.
F*CUk 30k synths! Thats just nonsense, building something that expensive and expecting anyone to buy it. Even if I had 30k to spare I wouldn’t spend it on that. Its simply too much money in an age when technology has become so much cheaper to manufacture.
Yeh… I was wondering what to do with the 20000 euro that is making my right trouser pocket so heavy. In my left pocket I have scrap, I believe something like 5000 euro. So ya… I might just go and get that Schmidt synth… That is no problem, I have a few golden buckets on my castle roof to collect the rain. As we know money comes tumbling down from the sky! So no problem really with money these days… and making music with electronic instruments, that is something only the rich should be allowed to do. As we know talent is about having lots of money any way.
As much as I love synths, all of them, I have to look at my goals. For the type of music I make, my background with music and technology, a fast computer and a few soft synths suits me fine. If I had this Schmidt would I make music closer to what I would like to make? Would I sell more tracks? Would more people be dancing on a Friday night to something I made? No. So for less than $2000 I have the computer (which is constantly upgrade able), a full package of software, monitors, sound-card, keyboard and a good set of cans. An $8000 (or $1000) synth doesn’t improve my music or my enjoyment making it. That’s not cheap, it’s simply rational. And for that same $2000 I can probably go all hardware with some clever buying and still not be missing out on a $8000 monster synth. All that said if I ever win the lottery I shall have some serious hardware in addition to my indoor pool.
It’s all good! When I was a teenager (80s) I was mesmerised by the electro pop and synths of the time. I couldn’t afford a single piece of useful instrumentation, though. Today my teenage sons can get started for virtually nothing. A quality instrument remains just that – quality. Additional accessibility has to be good, because more creative brains can now participate. Of course there will be some rather uncreative output, but natural selection will weed out the best music and the best instruments. Having not been able to afford anything in my teens, soft synths allowed me to eventually get started, then modelling hardware and I’ve gradually been able to work up to affording and playing, creatively, more pricey, analogue synths that I could only dream of, back in the day. Let the market, our pockets and our ears decide – now you can play what you want and listen to what you want more than ever before – I never would have dreamed it possible 30 years ago.
Some pretty brilliant comments here. Thank you for posting them, especially these longer ones.
I will stay on topic of synths only, though. Not social aspects of such an expensive synth. Yeah, I find it ridiculously priced, too, and you can buy everything you need to make a great studio for that kind of money these days, all the way from the computer and software, decent monitors [two pairs], ADDAs, microphones, synths, some nice outboard processors, and still have enough money for the acoustic treatment.
Also… I’ve been into synth music for about 25 years, and personally I’m so tired of subtractive synthesis and having a choice of 4 waveforms for oscillators. I think the market is too saturated with all these subtractive VA synths, VSTi market, too. I find synthesisers and samplers, even “ROMplers” of last century much more inspiring these days, and finding new sounds there, not in these new VA subtractive synths. I wish there was more synths like Roland Integra, for instance. Synths that explore various synthesis types, can use samples, on top of what we already have. I think there has been lack of truly innovative products last decade or so. That’s a shame.
Amen brother!
Well, I’ve seen a lot of people on this site alone begging for more $500 analog synths. I think there should be a market for expensive high quality synths. But I also think people shouldn’t be so obsessed with trying to recreate classic 1970’s analog synthesizers and try to embrace new technology and ideas.
If you have to complain (or passive agressively brag) about the quality of your tools, maybe the problem is you.
If I could afford a Schmidt, I’d be too busy playing it to come on here and brag about it. BTW, everyone who has been clamoring for a polyphonic analog synth? Here it is and its $30k. Gulp! Get a decent VA and a small modular. The minor creative limitations don’t mean THAT much, because analog is about shaping a single voice far more than polyphony. “REAL” men learn how to tweak filters, resonance and distortion until its 90% of the way there. Its as easy as BLEEP now. There’s the romance of dream synths and then there’s having some fun back down here on Earth.
i would say “price” instead of ‘quality’ but yeah pretty much spot on. i have this acquaintance that bashes on my rolands (jp-8k, jx-3p, jd-800, sh-201) because he kicks around with a kronos and an oasys. he keeps calling them garbage saying things like “roland doesnt know how to make a decent synth” and “they are cheap for a reason” i told him “yeah they are cheap because roland sold a buttload of them and people like you think the only way to make good music with a synthesizer is to pay out the ass for the newest most expensive one the day it comes out”. maybe if he knew how to program instead of clicking on a preset he would understand its not about the price, i know plenty of people that would never dream of bashing a $150 craigslist dx7 because if they got their hands on one they would spend weeks and weeks fiddling with it…but if its all about accessibility whats the problem with a softsynth emulation of a dx7? what it really comes down to is do you NEED that virus ti to make that sound or could you work a little harder and make use of an alesis ion for a tenth of the price? do you think people rocking piecemeal modulars are jealous of your 5 thousand dollar minimoog xl? i guarantee you that the more you pay is nowhere near as valuable as the time you put into learning your instrument and building your sound.
To Bob Lukomski….
What a stupid assumption! Damned if you do damned if you don’t!
Minipopes want everything “for cheap” everywhere.
Schmidt is ONE man band for years and years of development! Then sell it for 99,9$ at Wallmart
The planet is full of “cheap” idiot’s who want everything be made in china for 1 dollar crap or not
a practice that will ruin every other company who cant meet the labour costs of china, welcome to brute force capitalism.
True, hardware keyboards do seem to have less attention payed to the high quality and original range. However, it would seem the people who would have been interested in that high quality are spending that money on Eurorack. Only now has it become affordable, and really who would want a $2-3000 keyboard synth, when you could have a capable modular system for that price? Much more sound diversity, custom assembled for the sounds you want, and usually very well put together, It’s pretty easy to understand.
When droves of people demand a particular product at a particular price, its only a god damned fool who would offer them something different and at a higher price.
This post is right though. Price needs to be correlated to dev costs, or the app should just not exist at all:
Users think you can just make NumberOfUsers go to infinity so that Price can go to zero; while drinking their semi-weekly Starbucks coffee. Users want casual video game prices, for tools. This just can’t work. Casual video games are designed so that any first-grader can use them, to get very high volume.
Music instruments (any tool actually) filter their user base because by their nature, they require a skill (some level of musicianship in this case). As long as users demand that everything be about $5 for no concrete reason, everything will start to look like Zynga malware over time. If you want free music apps, then you will eventually get music apps with adware that sells your information or trys to goad you into an endless stream of in-app purchases by bringing you to the edge of being able to do something useful with another paywall. The honest devs who don’t want to do this will just have to move on and develop real apps for real businesses that have customers that actually pay.
It is not worth it to bother putting out updates on music apps because almost all the money that could be made on it is done in the first few months (spike with exponential falloff to a base value over a few months). A very successful app with a lot of users for too low of a price just creates a never-ending stream of email from people asking for features, or just inviting in high maintenance people that want you to teach them the prerequisites. A high enough price keeps out ultra-high maintenance people, and keeps from having to totally dumb down the app to deal with the large number of people who were not part of the target audience to begin with. I have even had to deal with people trying to extort me for the autographs of musicians through the rating system, dealing with stalker-ish and mentally ill people, etc.
As a dev, you might want to update just because your name shows up in Google searches associated with the app, or the friendship with certain users; but that’s about it. Music app dev is fun in its own way, but my experience with app dev gave me a new appreciation for how cool my day job really is.
What kills me is how many synths (hardware and software) these days would be massively improved if companies didn’t have to keep their synth ‘cheap’.
The new Korg MS-20 Mini is a perfect example. It’s got great electronics, but just OK keyboard, knobs and body. It feels like they had to turn a great synth into a good synth to meet some arbitrary price point. The construction on the new Sub Phatty completely blows the Korg away, and it’s just a few hundred dollars more.
Somebody else mentioned aftertouch – how much could it cost to add that to a keyboard, when companies are buying parts by the thousands?
On the app side, it’s sad to see developers like rrr00bb turned off of software synth development because so many people want something for nothing.
I don’t want to sound all negative though – we’ve got more synths at better prices than anytime I can recall.
i get your point about the ms 20. it could have been sturdier, it could have had a giver keyboard. but in fact the keys it has in the mini are better than the original. after touch wasn’t in the original. and frankly any change like that can effect the end result sounding like the original.
but you have to knowyur market if you’re going into business. do you want to sell to the kids, the semi serious hobbyists, the specialist hobbyists, or the professional musicians. each group gets smaller and smaller in numbers. no point blaming the kids for not wanting to buy something that would cost them 10 years pocket money – they will buy monotrons and cheap apps.
hobbyists will buy monotribes and midi interfaces and beatmaker 2 on iOS. they will bulk at buying 20 apps for $10 each because that’s a lot of money in the end and there’s no damn refund if the app is a piece of junk. they will happily buy 50 $5 apps because it feels like less of a commitment or waste of money. app makers need to consider this. they also need to consider this is a flooded market. if you want to charge $15 it needs to be the first tool of its kind or significantly better than the crowd and definitely unique. otherwise why not buy a similar app for $2?
I hate economists etc but it feels like people are complaining that the market out there isn’t as dreamy as they’d hoped. a little realism with who you’re selling to would prevent such heart aches.
Companies could always offer a standard and a deluxe version of their products with all the bells and whistles but they don’t probably because it isn’t as profitable. Korg has other high end equipment to fit the bells and whistles category.
Good design is about making a product fit in the right price/feature point. Marketing is trying to make all consumers fit into your preferred price/feature point. At some point, marketers always loose, and good design can step in and make plenty of money. This doesn’t mean “cheap” or “less”, it means better design and smarter implementation. Plenty of products in every market prove they can hit good features at a reasonable price, and this includes electronic instruments.
Plus … we get what we can afford to get. Besides, the tools we use really should not matter at all. It’s what we make with what we have that matters.
Product Development 101: Synthesizers are no different from any other manufactured product. It’s the market that drives product development. They (manufacturers) won’t make it if they can’t sell it and make a profit. High end (expensive) products have a very different profit model than more affordable products, in that you rely more heavily on higher margin to offset the lack of sales volume. This can be risky since the difference between success and monumental failure can be a couple hundred units…or less. This is why the big companies are selling boards in that sweet spot price range (sub-$1000). The high volume off-sets the thin margin, and it’s a safe bet.
It’s nice to dream about dozens of beautifully crafted, high end synths available to buy, but it just isn’t practical for manufactures or musicians. Still, there are plenty of manufacturers that go that way for those musicians with deep pockets. More importantly, I believe it’s a good thing that there has been a trend to offer more approachable keyboards in recent years. When I was coming up in music there was NO WAY I could afford what was available then. Now, kids that want to learn (and their parents) can have a realistic expectation that they can start out on something basic and affordable yet very capable, and aspire to move toward the high end beauties that this author pines so longingly for.
I suspect that software synths bear a good measure of responsibility for the loss of interest in expensive hardware. I’m using software synths these days because I live in a smaller space than I used to and no longer have the room to store the keyboard synths that I used to have. Software synths keep getting better and better and the hardware that runs them keeps getting smaller and smaller. E.g, the IPad and iPod Touch Can be wonderful sounding instruments. Maybe costly hardware synths have gone the way of the typewriter in the age of word processors.
It’s the cook, not the kitchen, most wonderful songs have been made with low-fi materials so a good cook can make something out of minimal ingredients.
“Low cost” machines (hardware) makes the music available for a larger group of people, those people can later decide to buy a more expensive machine if they like what they are doing.
People who use app’s and request serious instruments for 5 (USD/GBP/Euro) they are not a target anyway for serious music production but use it as a tool to play with.
Making prices of hardware cheaper will require new innovating thinking that can be applied in the future…… I think Korg is doing a nice thing at the moment.
How about replacing “too cheap” with the phrase “too broke”. The last time I lusted after great synths today they were way outta any price I can afford.
No one yet seems willing to answer the big question: How MUCH MORE would it cost for the manufacturers to provide a decent control surface? If a slight, solidifying change in the angle of the inner frame calls for a secondary retaining strip and an added support grommet per key, so that the whole thing OPERATES SMOOTHLY, so what if it adds 2 more minutes at an assembly station and $5 more in parts? How about another $3 for retaining collars under all knobs so they don’t jiggle the spindle and prematurely fatigue the %$#@! circuit board they feed? I WOULD pay an added $30-50 for a keyboard that felt like one. Its not a box of switches to me, its an INSTRUMENT.
I wish the overall “dance” crowd had more of a feel for digging in by hand until you can really play a thing. They *seem* to be the ones who are mostly telling manufacturers that crap is okay, because we like it small and disposable. Not to stylistically diss anyone who enjoys the positive entertainment of it, but we ARE the market. If the majority says crap is okay, that’s all we’ll get.
I have owned and loved five different Korgs, but that YouTube vid of the Krome’s keyboard action is an insult. The pivot is way too far out and the keys actually SPLAY like buck teeth when you put pressure on a chord. Wow, that’s… well, unrealistic in the world of actual players. That may be fine if you only trigger loops, but as a keyboardist, I walked away in disgust. Same with the Sledge. Do none of these people play actual keyboards made for human fingers that sweat?? Just put the damned stuff out as modules if you can’t do better than THAT.
Synths sound too damned good to be saddled with rotten builds. We should demand better for that kind of money and makers should pay as much attention to the keyboard as the programming.
‘Synths sound too damned good to be saddled with rotten builds. We should demand better for that kind of money and makers should pay as much attention to the keyboard as the programming.”
So true!
Right now, everybody’s asking for cheap analog monosynths, instead of a great monosynth that might really blow people’s minds.
seemto me that korg agree glcrap isn’t ok for all markets the volcas look pretty solid and the ms20 mini is actually well. jolt. they want it to last as long as the original while still keeping the price down. that seems reasonable to me.
meanwhile they make the crap nano keys for the disposable market. they e even improved the build of those with the second round because they really were unbearable.
these companies are listening. some of them. you wouldn’t have seen that 10 years ago!
All my music money has to go to a lot more than just synths. Computers, mics, sound cards, effects, etc. Synths are one component in my budget. If I’m going to spend a lot of cash on a synth, I’d spend it on modular gear. And even then I’ll buy the gear used at almost half the price. People barely use these things and move on or give up. My gain!
1) I’m a champion of the sweat it takes to learn the piano even passably well. While $30k is obviously mega-boutique territory, I will semi-grudgingly not fault someone who buys the thing IF they’re really going to use it. To my ears, you can tell the difference between the music of someone who flits from tool to toy and that of someone who really bonds with a central instrument, as with the Chroma lover’s excellent tale. Its okay to be a laptop whiz, but there’s as much good to be said for a smokin’ player. (Double points if you’re both. :P)
2) I’m NOT too cheap to save a bit and buy a better tool I intend to play for many years. Done it before, MIGHT do it again. Is there a Krome model with a solid but fluid action, rather than the clackmeister it now comes with? I’d buy that as a tabletop module, but a keyboard that sometimes catches your fingers when you change chords isn’t an instrument, its a digital mouse trap. With my fingers as the mouse. Ouch.
3) I hate feeling “elitist,” but its so easy to make musical noises now, the field is weighed down by many who are just playing AT it. Step-sequencing alone does not a good song make. OTOH, I also have a couple of pals who don’t even pretend to be composers. They just like their modest gear as a hobby that lets them make a few driving CDs for the car, which is perfectly okay. I’m hungry to hear more music that sounds like someone had an epiphany moment in their writing, but I also have to be okay with the hobbyists. Enjoying music is good for you, much like petting a dog is good for you both. Everyone needs some of that, so no harm, no foul. The situation just makes me feel restless.
4) Yeah, I’m kinda sick of the same ol’ analog waveforms, too. Thank God someone had the courage to tell us the truth, heh heh. As with those endless Tangerine Dream and Jarre covers, those sounds can be sort of frozen in time and lose much of their impact unless used purposefully. They have a musically useful, honored space, but unless you are at the Wendy Carlos level in your mindset, you’re unlikely to REALLY make a big subtractive synth sing. So for me, analog means good layering and great sound effects, but I’d be far less happy without killer acoustic samples. A Moog-y sound with a nice attack can offer some guitar aroma, but blended with an acoustic or e-guitar sample and you can get a real powerhouse. So, how do you like *THE FUTURE* so far? 😛
What the actual F**k? What do you mean “cheap”? Hardware synths are already very expensive, even the little ones.
At the NAMM show I was told by the Schmidt rep that the thing cost $19,000. At that price it is hardly a question of being “too cheap” to by one. The question is “could I possibly afford one.” No. There are too many other things that I am responsible for and my income could not justify it.
I’m sure that Trent Reznor will be able to afford one if finds the need. I will scrimp and save and buy a P12 and consider myself lucky to own that when the time comes.
If Moog actually presented a new MemoryMoog, what would it be like? Would it be a $15k all-analog beast like the Schmidt? An $8k 4-voice model with digital effects downstream from the filters? More importantly, where do you really stand on WHY you want an analog poly? Am I mistaken in feeling that the best modular patches would turn into distortion or mud if played polyphonically? Poly sounds still stand on the lineage of pianos, organs or small ensembles, as with brass. Modular synthesis is more about looking for new colors of paint. The crossover point resides where good monophonic, soloing lines appear. I see these as two having very different roles, even while allowing for the occasional quirky patches that hit the mark in either mode. Does that sound like clarity or blarney?
Yet the P12 is overpriced like hell!
what kind of nonsense is this?
lets turn it around and lets ask: do i need a 20.000$ synth to feel inspired and get something done?
high debate …
yamaha dx serie last for a long time , building quality is incredible but , fm7 plugin with a decent controller keyboard is more comfortable nowadays !
it is exactly the opposite problem with modern analogic synth , the hardware sound better than soft but who can repare analogic pieces welded as cms composants ???
the sustainability is the key , people prefer buy cheap synth but replaceable instead monster with unique sound but discontinueds too early :
future of Dave Smith Instrument , Hartmann or John Bowen ???
in oblivion of Story !!!!
and why buy 30,000 $ synth if a 300 $ second hand synth does the job more effectively ???
how many ppl need a stradivari?
and if u had a stradivari would u play it exclusively?
no other instruments just a stradivari?
every 3 year old child can generate futuristic sounds with a smartphone today
“every 3 year old child can generate futuristic sounds with a smartphone today”
Sounds like they’re all doing it at once, too! Or is that sound just in my head? 😛
I got a non-music related job 6 months ago. I already got few bonus from the boss due to my performance and it seems the next month I will be promoted and earn a bit more of money. not to mention, obviously, I have been paid since the first day of work.
Thats not happen when you start working with electronic music. You enter the thing already loosing money buying your gear/softs. Spending ridiculous amount of time to learn and master your gear/softs.
And let’s say you already got that good knowledge in synthesis, sampling, mastering and mix techniques, DAW and digital audio domain and decide to start a project, 6 months is nothing if you really want to make something to get attention artistically, aesthetically and with some inovation. In 6 months, you probably will write and finish one or two tracks in two months and will spend the last of the 4 months trying to master social market over the web. That’s my experience and of a few friends I know.
So I think the workflow to make good electronic music still in the 90s, but the market are the steam/cyberpunk 2013 lol
I think it will take a few years more to see the market more dynamic. Let’s think some sort of Soundcloud with advanced features, like a Kickstarter platform embbebed on it. So people could engage crowdfunding your next realese when you upload a snippet. Easy ways to aquire music on it, like purchase music directly from the Soundcloud from our phones and the invoice comes in the next phone carrier bill. Even if you have a pre-paid phone service. But see, you need a credit card to purchase music and countries like mine you need a international card. That really not make purchasing music online accessible to the majority.
And of course a better way to expose your song. Some sort of CloudKillers with the right attention from the big media. Just ideias. I think all are out there, but well fragmented in a lot of platforms.
I wish I had a few hardware synths, but in the current state of comparison: spending money with music/earn money with music, these gear only serves to amaze friends/girls or get more hate from my haters lol. I’m happy with the dozen of midi controllers I have for now. They are pretty cheap and the softsynths are really awesome. Pain is to map controllers to the virtual parameters. But developers will take care of this in soon with the urgency of the live music.
customers : synth with aftertouch , vco , dco or wave tables huge filters ,enveloppes , arpeggio and small sequencers and some direct controls ,midi and sound over usb …
world companies : only oversized workstations or reducted analog synths .
quasi home made craft : too expensively modular or snobbery hype “next big thing to buy GAS ” …
say me the difference between a macbeth synth and a mini brute in a mix , between a yam mu5 square with distortion and a dsi polyevolver or a cs80 with a casio xwp1 ???
How justifies the price difference if it is not the greed of the companies and the snobbery of the musicians?
pfff ok ok
perhaps the solution will come with DiY projects for a few who got some knowlegde in electronic but for the others ?
for people who dont want stradivari cello or nth workstation ???
the Safety in the plugins for Iphone ???
( synthtopia is endorsed by apple ? i cant understand this craze for ipad , if i want touch i would buy a lap steel guitar not a ipad !!! )
While I’d love to have racks upon racks of synths, modules, and outboard gear (anything analog really), it is expensive. That’s not to say that you have to have expensive gear to make good music; a similar debate to this one. I think if you are into analog gear, but can’t afford some of the more expensive toys, you should go the DIY route. This is affordable for anyone wanting to start a synth collection. Plus it teaches you how synthesis really works, learning the circuits, and eventually being able to modify and repair your own gear.
I don’t really have much sympathy for the gear manufacturers. They’re probably the only one’s making any money out of music anymore. There’s some amazing gear at affordable prices. I think that’s great. There will always be room for premium gear if it’s good enough to be worth the extra cash. Perhaps its the manufacturers lack of invention that is the problem. All I see are the same old synths come out year up on year. Same old square, saw, triangle, noise, filter. Basically a take on a minimoog. Imagine how exciting synths were when they first came out – something completely new and different sounding – unique. Now everyone is making the same gear so of course the are forced to compete on price.
If they are going to charge the price of a luxury car or small house for a keyboard why should people buy it? There’s plenty of gear around the £1000-£2000 range and I think that is expensive enough. Most non-musicians recoil in horror at the amount we spend on gear so I think much of it is vastly overpriced. I really don’t think my girlfriend or others understand when I causally spend a grand+ on a new piece of gear. Regular people are used to regular instruments like an electric guitar for £100. You can also pay £10,000+ for one that does basically the same job but it is, and will always be, niche. The mass market doesn’t consider it worth it so only a few obsessives would even consider it. It just makes sense.
Are ‘great’ synth makers getting too greedy would seem more of an appropriate question. You really shouldn’t need a mortgage to buy a synth.
why does it have to mean we, the end users, are cheap? did it ever occur to anyone that the harder a company works on refining the build quality ,after a while it costs the manufacturer much less to make it?
the CE industry taught the musical instruments companies that the more corners you cut the more money you will make and a premium product just means a bigger pricetag.
hardware synths dont HAVE to be hollow and overly plastic the manufacturers just obsess about profit margins and it DRIVES the quality down. on the flip of that, just because something costs 15k doesnt mean it was hewn from a single slab of platinum by a 300 year old blind monk while eerie shamisen music plays. the quality is ALWAYS going to be less than it could be because otherwise who would buy the new one when it drops at the next namm?
cheap VA synths aren’t out of vogue because people REALLY believe that a true analog sounds a million times better they are out of vogue because you may as well get a nice high quality midi controller with the advancements in softsynths and be comfortable playing at a fraction of the cost. its not like the next synth is going to be a HUGE advancement in sound. its all about the feel and your ability to play it
.
Most software is far too expensive for your every day user. This is a “retarded” question…am I being criticized for being poor or not making enough money to afford this shit?
If I were a good enough musician to be able to afford a $30,000 synth, I would be a good enough musician to not need one. There can’t be very many people that could both benefit from and afford such a device.
If I had 30,000 extra dollars for a Buchla, yeah I would spend the money. Reality bites, so i built my own modular from kits.. For a mere fraction of the price. Monetary value stings while chasing the modular dragon.
@Abraxis – Morton Subotnick, Trent Reznor, Alessandro Cortini, and other lesser-known but still excellent composers and musicians disagree…
I just realized that the thing that’s been bugging me about all this. It’s that it was written by someone that worked for the Haken-Continuum guys. Like the Eigen-Harp, the Continuum is a beautiful (and quite expensive) instrument. No doubt. But this article deliberately insults the same people that would probably love to own own of their instrument. It’s totally self-serving and rude. Unprofessional. Shame on you guys.
i think we’re having less and less •musicians•! that’s the biggest downside to it all.
i don’t know about musicians, but i am so glad that hw synths are as affordable as they Are today. after 2 decades of tinkering with a mouse and feeling overwhelmed by drivers, updates, patches, etc. i finally got me a minibrute and it has changed my life. i play with it for hours on end and it is so much fun. i don’t claim to be a musician and i appreciate them much more now. it feels nice to have a real instrument. even if i create a 1 bar, i own the sound design and the melody. real musicians need professional grade hardware, but nerds like me shall have access to the real thing without breaking the bank. just my two cents.
“Musicians getting too cheap”? More like musicians getting too poor. When nobody pays for the music musicians make, how are they supposed to have the funds to purchase expensive gear?
I’ve owned both analog and digital synths, along with several high priced workstations, but have just recently downsized and sold most of the big gear. For the last few months I’ve been experimenting with nothing but apps and a cheap Korg R3 as a controller. Say what you want about quality of tone, I hear it, but I’m having more fun making music than ever.
Kraftwerk’s choice was between a Minimoog and a beetle, and the choice was that,
Dad’s ‘wobbulator’ or whatever knocked up in his shed, or nothing.
Quality synths have always been expensive, but I think because of the availability of
cheaper alternatives more people can now try out synthesis, and decide as to whether
a synth with ‘voodoo’ is a good investment for them.
IMHO some modulars seem to be capable of 20 million varieties of pedestrian sounds.
TB303 makes 1 good one; it has what I am describing as ‘voodoo’.
There is such an absolutely massive difference between being “cheap” and being on a budget. I played with the Schmidt at NAMM and, while it is certainly cool, there is no way that would be in my equipment budget for a year without being the whole year… and some change likely. The price was a turn off that made me notice things that it didn’t have as much as everything it did. The same day I saw the MS-20 mini and was ecstatic about the price point… Who cares that, much like the original, it is ultimately kind of lightweight and dinky… it has the sound. It’s fun to use. People can afford it.
There’s a lot to be said for the populist synth. Being one of five guys who own something doesn’t make for much of a user community either…
I also think some purists underestimate the amount of processing other analog enthusiasts like to do in programs like Ableton. We don’t necessarily need a million matrices to make things happen, we might only want the sound of the synth moving through a decent front end, some color and character, and a solid filter- and be using it to feed samplers, or to cut and paste in arrangement. The car loan synth is a bit overdressed for a lot of modern work flows, regardless of budget.
As much as I would like to have 3 voyagers, a fantastic modular system and every other bit of synth porn I have ever loved, I do have work to do and deadlines to meet- so window shopping for unicorns is not a desirable stop in my workflow.
ok i’m going to try to be succint on this:
if i have 1K to spend on a synth, why in the world would i want to entrust it’s configuration to some dude at DSI, or some random guy at Waldorf, both of which are creating synths tailored to the general market, instead of dumping my money onto a modular, tailored to my process and genre.
musicians aren’t getting too cheap to buy great synths. they’re getting too smart to throw money at a generic synths that force you into very particular synthesis processes/workflows.
the money is flooding into modulars. that’s why ugly 19k synths (or for that matter anything above 1k that isn’t an elektron/tb/tr) aren’t something i’ll ever be interested.
Hmmm, interesting, but I don’t agree with the author. Sure Korg is churning out inexpensive little buzz boxes by the boatload, but they’ve only contributed to the growing analog revival – albeit at the entry level (and there has always been an entry level.) The trade of vintage analog gear is as brisk as ever, and it was the used synth market that Korg noticed and decided to progressively exploit. Oberheim delayed Son of 4 Voice to focus on the launch of the new 2 Voice. DSI routinely announces new products. Doepfer, Moog, Waldorf, etc, all keep the synth fires burning. Roland and Yamaha have focused on pro and stage gear which works better for their worldwide markets. There’s even rumors of classic Curtis and SSM chips being re-manufactured – and that would really open the design front.
All right, so spend $5.000 -$10,000 on a single analog synth with only 4 poly…. Then go do a gig and get $60 – $80 a night. Do the math….how long will it take to actually pay off the synth and make some money?… In retrospect I used to get $100 a gig back in the 90s. So a new synth at $500 – $1000 that sounds extremely well … does the trick and tben some…… Its all relative.
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Here’s the REAL reason, and I don’t wanna hear anymore about it. It’s because as soon as you spend 30k on an instrument, a week later they make a better one cheaper. We aren’t cheap, We’re fucking smart.
Musicians are not cheap; most have day jobs and music is their passion. For those who are brave enough to make musical performance their primary source of income, I say, good for you and goddamn you sure are brave in today’s economy. With that aside:
Nope. Musicians are *not* cheap. Most have to make critical choices. With the current cost of the larger Continuum (which, by the way, I would love to get ***AT SOME POINT***), some people (such as myself) have to budget for those kinds of purchases for a year or more; only to have other things come along, whether it’s another piece of gear at a great price, or major car/home repair, medical/dental situations, family obligations, and so on.
I recently had to decide between major car repair and getting that White Voyager I’ve always wanted. The car won.
Last year it was an over-extension for myself: I bought a Solaris *and* a Harpejji. Needless to say I don’t play either one very well, yet. So no Continuum for me… but I will obtain one ***AT SOME POINT***. The second try at obtaining the White Voyager was stymied by the release of the Arturia MatrixBrute; I couldn’t turn down a great deal/opportunity/percent off on one, so I grabbed it.
Looks that won’t be this year or 2018 won’t be my Continuum year for that matter, because now I’m looking at buying a home.
My ***AT SOME POINT*** shout is directed at the builders/makers. The higher the price of your product is directly related to the length of time you need to have said product available. You have to be in it for the long run. It will take me 2-3 more years to be able to afford one.
Stress on “afford one.” People decide they can afford things by way of prioritizing.
On that note, I leave you with this thought: I’m selling a bunch of gear to raise money for my house down payment. any buyers out there?
P.S. You do get what you pay for, in the upper range ($1500-$5000 hardware units).
I’d rather say many people buy synths these days that are not musicians or sound designers at all, but pure hobbyists. If they have to choose between a PlayStation and a drum machine for Christmas, price becomes a critical issue. Companies can sell way more stuff if they address this market segment, but of course they can’t ask for the same prices professionals are willing to pay.
professional musicians will always gravitate toward professional quality instruments. successful professionals. may want to treat themselves with an exotic luxury synth.
growing up as a guitar player, it was no problem finding usable instruments for a couple hundred dollars and making rock and roll happen. synths, on the other hand, were kind of an illusive mystery. you had to be prepared to invest before you could even experiment. after 25 years of playing guitar and making a few bucks at it, I now have some very nice instruments.
I see the trend of cheap synths as a boon for the high end market because it’s a more accessible world now. some new synthesists will always be bedroom hobbyists, but some will be successful and graduate to better gear.
Old-vintage synthesisers still sound better than the new “cheap” synthesisers.
Roland’s TB303 original cost was $400. Aimed at being a bass assist for guitar practice it incidentally changed the Electronic music industry in a big way. In this respect I’d say it’s not the cost of the synth it is the synths character that matters.
A couple of points:
a) That $400 in today’s dollars would be about $1,200. It was a failure then, and a similarly-limited synth introduced today at that price would be a failure now.
b) Roland didn’t change the music industry and the 303 didn’t change the industry. It was bands like Phuture that took the 80’s equivalent of the Timbre Wolf and made great music with it, turning the 303 into the much-desired item it is.
I am cheap to buy any synth for now, because too many people ask me work for god damn free, I don’t have a space to store it, I already spent too much on other instruments/equipments and rehearsal space and recording studio, moreover I don’t have time to finish cues for client with recording synth and change it and recording again – plugins and virtual sampled instrument are way easy to change things. (Of course, I am NOT in the legit studio or company where you can do those real analog process)
I really hope someday I am not cheap.
Unless one is a simpering and entitled “trust fund baby” with musical aspirations, the idea of collecting or even obtaining higher end synths is generally not in the cards for most players. The NAMM show itself has become a caricature of the former glory days of the industry, and hundreds of boutique products are put on display, only to be eventually discontinued-with the exception of the ubiquitous Nord line. As has been pointed out in previous posts, the earlier incarnations of the synthesizer world featured products which were out of range for all but the dedicated musician who was lucky enough to be on tour with a high profile group or professionally busy enough to justify the purchase. Let us also remember that the music business itself suffered an irreversible devaluation as a result of the loss of compact discs and its distribution network, thanks to the selling out of respective artist catalogues by the major labels to the streaming network companies like Spotify and Apple Music. On a more positive note, simulation apps which emulate the original analog synths which gave rise to a myriad of bands are now available and exhibit the same functionality as their high priced ancestors at a fraction of the cost.
as long as there is no money to be made with music anymore there wont be much demand for pricy synths 🙂
This is true but not just for musical instruments but in the whole world of consumer products. People do not want to pay for quality.
I have worked in semiconductor manufacturing over 20 yrs. I guarantee the build quality of a Korg Minilogue or Yamaha reface DX is far superior to that of a Casio CZ-101. And the 70’s? I just replaced all the power caps and slotted screws on my Solina. It still weighs just as much. Today we have thorough QC, burn-in, better component specs, robotic SMT, wave soldering, etc. The same advances in manufacturing apply equally to both analog and digital circuits. That DSI Rev 2 you buy today will work flawlessly for the next 25 years or more. How fast did the CS-80s fall out of calibration or worse? That machine, lovely as it sounds, suffered from oscillator drift and inefficient power supply. As for the Schmidt, I have no interest in a synth that won’t LFO sync to MIDI clock.
This article should be accompanied by an article titled “Why are musicians so underpaid?”.
See my comment above-the collapse of the recording industry (via selling out) of the cumulative major artists who resided in major label catalogues (resulting in the elimination of mass sales of compact discs and its distribution network) is the main culpable reason.
I think the most incredible thing here is people’s opinions about how people SHOULD be, what they SHOULD buy, how they SHOULD spend their money! There are some self righteous and judgmental people out there talking shit as if their view was fact… as if THEIR view is the right view. Some of it is embarrassing to read. I own Volca’s, I own Boutiques, i own loads of cheap plug ins, i own relatively expensive plug ins, I also own a Schmidt and loads of other high end synths…. they are ALL worthy instruments, they are ALL valued as they ALL get used to produce music daily. Telling me there’s no money in music? Rubbish. Telling me that free plug ins sound the same as high end hardware? Rubbish. As much as I love the internet and open discussion it frustrates me that people who AREN’T as forthuante as me take some of these comments as “the word”!… Please take notice of someone that has access to a complete cross-section of gear that uses it daily to write music that earns him the money to buy MORE gear…. Whatever you can afford… THAT is how much you spend on gear, whether it’s hardware or software… they’re ALL instruments… and these days finding a dud (at ANY price) is actually quite difficult!
FWIW, and in my opinion. The short answer is yes. But there’s a lot at play here.
For example, when I was growing up, a PPG was £2K, to put it in perspective, my YEARLY salary was £4.5K.
A Jupiter 8 was £895, so ok, 3 months salary.
So, would you pay half a years salary for a synth these days?
Errr, no, very few would, could or did.
BUT, what you did get was an instrument, not a toy. You got something that sounded great, felt great and you spent time with.
Add in that, and let’s be honest here, the world economy is in a pretty shocking state right now. Not helped by money grabbing arsehats who only think of their pocket NOW and don’t give a damn about the future.
But as with all things technology wise, parts got cheaper, manufacturing got better, microprocessors got more powerful, custom chips got more affordable and suddenly, wham the DX7 came out and wiped the floor with the competitors, it was cheaper than most synths, sounded pretty good, had memory, MIDI and was also portable (compared to say a PPG or CS80/CS40).
This was the start of the race to the bottom for synths.
Lots of people tried to make cheaper and more functions, but only a few survived.
Now, things are getting utterly ridiculous, I mean $299 for a Minimoog clone is just plain insane. That is not a sustainable business model, it’s a great way to KILL competition, nothing more.
What worries me most about this race to the bottom is that this is what happened in the late 80s with computer companies, everyone was trying to make faster, smaller and cheaper, many went bust as a result. What was also sacrificed was innovation.
To innovate takes time, and hence costs money (the cost to innovate and develop is the biggest cost in any product) and as such when you’re trying to save money in a business it’s often the first thing to go.
So whilst yes it’s fabulous that you can get a Behringer model D for $299, consider what damage it’s doing. It might be a quick save now, but in 5 years if your only choice for manufacturers is Behringer, Roland, Yamaha and Korg, then what do you buy?
My final thought for your consideration; Ask any guitarist how they feel about a high quality well made Fender strat or Gibson les paul Vs a cheap knock off?
So why should YOU as a musician be excited about a cheap knock off of a high quality product?
People ARE constantly complaining about synth prices, despite the fact that new electronic music gear is more powerful and cheaper than ever.
I don’t think it’s the economy, though – look at how hot the modular synth market is, which is the biggest money suck ever.
What’s different is that the novelty has worn off keyboard synths, and you can get cheap synths that can do reasonable approximations of all the old-school synth sounds.
It used to be that an expensive synth got you a place in a band or got you gigs. Audiences would hear a synth and it blew their minds back then. Those day are long gone.
As long as people are buying cheap synths designed to recreate the sounds of 40 years ago, synths aren’t going to regain their power for either players or audiences. That may be why people are turning to the modular scene for something new.
I think the comment is not really very true. There are quite a few wonderful options of super high quality synths out there. Ken Macbeth, DSI, Tom Oberheim…etc. Then there are the high quality module makers like Rob Hordijk and the high end euro guys. There are at least enough great synths to fill up a rich composers studio. Then the great thing is that there are a bunch of affordable synths out there for the undiscovered geniuses and hobbyists. Sometimes, these mid range things are actually good enough for professional use. – not to mention the obvious fact, that a true genius of electronic music can make anything sound cool, so in one sense this isn’t even a relevant topic – So really, there is something for everyone out there, and there have never been that many people who could afford top of the line products, and it’s still true today. But, congratulations to anyone who has been successful enough in music to by the great things. And to everyone else… that stuff really isn’t that much better than what you have. LOL. No matter how good it is, it wont make you a better composer, and if you’re already a great composer, you can write with anything.
for me, the ‘right’ question is: are musicians who buying the expensive synth only for collection purpose?? or to make music?
Because making a ‘great’ music isn’t ‘always’ requiring an expensive tool. What matter is the imagination of the musician itself, that matters!
Professionals, who in the past would spend 30k on an instrument, aren’t buying hardware instruments because they buy software because they require the convenience for their production chain. A professional looks at these things as tools and a 30k tool needs to have a reasonable payback period.
Artists, or I should say non-commercial creators, are not making a living off their music or are deriving very little income from it (that’s the reality, folks). Those people don’t have the cash to lay down on a 30k instrument no matter how much they’d like to. That’s a down payment on a house or a pretty nice new car.
Basically, the Schmidt was built for a market that existed in 1985 but no longer. Welcome to reality.
Musicians are never cheap when it comes to their work , The music industry has collapsed there is no economy to push sales of anything music related that includes equipment..
I will start with an anekdote: two or three years back I have seen Tangerine Dream live. They used JUST plug-ins. It felt aestethically horrible and the whole gig felt just fake. There are several factors to ne considered IMHO:
1) we need extremely complex and well built synths but not for you or for me: for those demi-god artists that will break new ground with them and open new sonic possibilities: Eno, Reznor, Jarre, Aphex Twins etc.
2) at the same time we need cheap clones and reissues as well. Praise be to Behringer and Roland: I hope they will clone ALL the classic synths of the 70s and 80s: ARP2600, Synthi, CS-80, Polivoks, OSCar. You name it: the more, the better. They will be gold for the rest of us and for the young musicians, to see what they will come up with.
3) God bless plug-ins, as we need them anyway. Some of them are actually so good that they should be built as hardware as well: Animoog, Omnisphere etc.
There is only ONE thing we don’t need. A bunch of idiots that want to spend tens of thousands for the old original synths (happy for them, nothing against it) and bash whoever is in favour of the cheap replicas. The funny thing about them is that they do not produce a single original sound or a single great track with their expensive toys. Only poor jams on YT that anyone could do with a couple of volcas and a cheap minimoog replica 😉
I was with you until you started the holier-than-thou whining about ‘idiots’ with their ‘expensive toys’ .
Show me a YT video with expressive musical performance on a couple of volcas or a cheap minimoog replica. Something that’s as expressive as what anyone with a guitar, a violin or any traditional instrument would do.
You can’t do it – cheap instruments just don’t give performers the ability to play expressively. There are tons of electronic instruments that will let you play expressively, but cheap ones all have compromises that make playing expressively hard or impossible.
PS: I saw Tangerine Dream in the 80’s, when they were still touring with giant synth rigs, and they were as boring as they were in their later plug-in days. Thankfully, their current lineup is bringing both hardware and improvisation back into their performances.
I agree with the comment below. In your last paragraph, you deteriorated into bitterness and “non-fact”. How do you know whether a guy/guys who spend a lot of money on a vintage synth(s) don’t produce original sounds and/or good tracks.
I’m sure they think that their tracks are as good as yours. Everybody thinks they’re Led Zeppelin when they’re alone in their basements – regardless of whether or not they’re playing a $5 VST or a $20,000 CS-80. : )
Maybe you didn’t quite intend to say what we thought you said, but I think you worded your final paragraph badly.
Love…
So … A stupid, stupid article, subjective, without arguments I have not read long ago (and I’m not so young anymore)
I agree with the article in part. Not having the money to spend on something doesn’t make someone cheap – and this goes without saying to be clear.
My issue is that, when I read comments left my readers, often the comments seem far too focussed on the price, and or what they perceive as the “value” of the synth rather than the quality/sound/features of the synth.
I’ve often seem people make ridiculous comments like, “I would never pay that much for a synth with only 2 oscillators,” or “it’s such a rip-off to charge that much money for a synth that only plays one note at a time.”
The reality is that the majority of people have no idea what something costs to make, where it’s made, how much or how little profit margin the company or owner is making, etc. What we really don’t know is the R&D cost. People are simply making comments based on the number of features for the money.
The worst part is that the guy will close out the comment by saying, “…and I’ve never even played it.”
I can understand a sentence on perceived value, but it would be nice to see people spend more time discussing the merits of the synth, as opposed to the price/value of the synth. (A vintage OBX costs upwards of $8K, and it doesn’t have many features, but find a synth made today that sounds as creamy/organic IMHO – and I’m sorry to be repetitive, but there’s a lot more to the story than the price you pay for the number of features you’re getting).
Case in Point…go back and look at the complaints over the price of the Dave Smith Prophet 6. (I differentiate over ‘cost’ and ‘price.’ ‘Cost’ relates to what it “costs” to make something. ‘Price’ relates to what the end-user pays/the retail price).
Dave Smith comes out with this great revivalist analog poly, and all these people are “bitching” about the fact it costs $2700. My feeling was, “great, don’t buy it,” but why waste people’s time writing about it.
It’s like – if you feel you must comment on “value for the money,” then fine, mention it in a sentence, but don’t spend a paragraph bitching about the price. How the hell do “we” know what it cost to make??? Maybe the mfg pays his employees incredibly well…???
Rather, talk rather talk about the merits of the synth.
I think that’s what most readers are interested in. I know that’s what I’m interested in.
He is right about spreding cost in time. It is very easy to say this when you live in Canada, as in his case. But for those who don’t live in high value economies, this translates into saving for years to get a ‘deep instrument’. In that sense, dismissing affordable synths as ‘cheap distractions’ sounds utterly snobbish. Go to africa and latin america to see what kind of music people make with improvised instruments.
I have a question to all commenters:
if money was out of the question, would you want to have one or not?
Some things are priceless.
You are prisoner of the money!
But anyways, even if we must do some accounting, it is not expensive. This is a cheap piece of material, and I don’t understand how they can make a living designing, manufacturing and selling this beast. They’re working on a shoestring.
Indeed, what you have here is 8 analog synthesizers, each with at least 4 VCO, 3 VCF, 4 Filters, 5 Mixers, 13 LFO, 7 EG, 1 stereo VCA, and more. (Again, don’t forget to multiply those numbers by 8, it’s an 8-voice polyphonic synthesizer). I dare you to compose any modular synthesizer with that amount of modules more cheaply! A basic A-100 is already more than 2000 €, you’ll need 8 of them for 16,000 € and you only have half the VCO in the Schmidt!
Really, it’s a bargain!
But some things are priceless, and the question is whether you want to leave this world without having spent some serious quality time with this work of art, or not?
I have to wonder if the price of, say, a Moog One, is warranted in terms of value for what went into its creation? Does it have to cost $8000. in order to warrant the manufacturing cost? The price seems excessively high and geared for the elite. Not just this synth but also products from Nord, Dave Smith as well as keyboards in general, like the Korg Kronos, are we are being price conditioned?
It is extremely expensive to build a synth like the moog one. It is even more expensive to build it in the united states. The cost of development of a synth like that took a long time and lots of people. The salaries alone are massively expensive. The quality of the components, the local labor…etc.
Also, what does the manufacturing cost have to do with anything? Are they not supposed to profit? Without that, they can’t stay in business. Without that, they have no money or incentive to invest in the development of the next big thing. they have every right to charge what they want, and you have every right not to buy it.
You say “excessively high and geared for the elite” as if that matters at all. Plenty of people are buying it, and it is perfectly ok that they made something that plenty will never be able to afford. It sounds like you can’t, and if that’s the case, they didn’t make it for you.
People have this strange notion that products must all be priced so that anyone can have them. That is nonsense, and is a first class ticket to never having truly remarkable things ever made again.
in a word, YES.
Consider….. 25% of the sale goes to the dealer, 25% of the sale goes to the distributor..
ok, so we’re down to $4000, yes?
half of that goes as “profit” (read: recover the development time which is to the best of my knowledge at least 2 years of work for multiple people), the other $2000 will be the build cost.. now there is a LOT of parts inside that thing, plus the case and keymech and of course assembly costs (read: labour). I think Moog have done well to get 16voices down to $2000 for build.