83 thoughts on “Behringer Intros Knockoffs Of Moog Model 15, System 35 & System 55 Modular Synthesizers”

1. BRUH

   1. Indeed!

      PS…..And wait for Behringertopia!

2. Take my money!

3. Cue the B-word haters…

   It’s sad that any article with new Behringer releases get the most comments and all just repeating the same opinions.

   1. Maybe Mr B’s reputation has been earned.

      1. > Maybe Mr B’s reputation has been earned.

         Oh, did you also find out the hard way that if you use Mr B’s first name it triggers the “hate speech” filter here and your message is replaced by a note that it’s been removed for using hate speech. His actual first name is considered hate speech here. I don’t know whether to be annoyed or to be amazed.

         1. Rabid Bat

            You are spreading misinformation. If you continue, your comments will be deleted.

            Synthtopia has always encouraged readers to share any opinion that they have about things, but not to engage in personal attacks.

            This is not complicated. You can criticize things (synths, technologies, business practices) but you can’t attack people or groups of people (Uli Behringer, races, genders, etc).

            So “Behringer’s synths suck!” is going to fly. “Uli’s a a**hole!” is not going to fly.

            You have a history of crossing that simple line, and we’ve explained this to you previously.

            FWIW, here are the last few times people have mentioned Uli Behringer in Synthtopia comments:

            “The founder, Uli Behringer, has said that they want to copy all their competitor’s successful products, only making enough changes to minimize the risk of lawsuits. ”
            https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2021/06/15/behringer-intros-brains-eurorack-module-a-mutable-instruments-plaits-clone/#comment-1438870

            “Uli Behringer is the Robin Hood of electronic music.”
            https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2021/01/14/behringer-confirms-synthi-vcs3-knockoff-on-the-way/#comment-1435277

            “I will trademark Uli Behringer toilet paper”
            https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2021/03/05/behringer-oberheim-trademark-registration-refused-because-it-falsely-suggests-a-connection-with-tom-oberheim/#comment-1435229

            And these are actual examples of the types of words that WILL get your comment automatically deleted, because they’re frequently used in comment spam:

            Tramadol
            Zoloft
            Phentermine
            incest
            oxycontin
            rape
            xanax
            ephedra
            dumbass
            asshole
            gowatchs

            Please keep your comments on topic, contribute constructively and don’t waste the moderators’ time.

            1. Admin: Comment deleted for wasting admin’s time, as noted above.

               Keep comments on topic and constructive.

               1. good to see synthtopia admins have sense of humor and don’t change their principles under pressure

               2. This deleted comment is comedy gold.

   2. The same could be said for people commenting on other people giving a shit about ethics regarding Behringer’s releases.

   3. To be fair you started it here. Just ignore them.

4. WOW! Learned on a modified System III. This thing looks and sounds awesome. Uli has been incredibly busy. Great Job!

5. This really shines a light on how deeply the magical sounds from the original Moogs have affected people for generations now. It’s obvious from this that there is a worthwhile market for people to keep working with these old devices and configurations. I do hope that many of the buyers of these systems end up incorporating newer and equally interesting modules, and it would be interesting to see whether customers will end up “spoiling” their new old Moogs in this way. Fortunately, the Eurorack format lets “integrated modular” systems like these play very well with others!

6. As much as this forums hates Behringer. They had a plan and are executing. Simple as that. Yeah, clone this and knockoff that, blah blah, we heard it already, it got old back when they released the model D and teased the 808 and 909. But producing anything, whether it be a clone/knockoff/original/ knockoff clone/original knockoff, etc. To create a product and bring it to market in the electronic equipment market, over an dover again, consistently for the past 3-4 years… Makes you wonder what everyone else is doing.

   For example, the MPC Live and X is released. Thennnnnnn, the mpc live + speaker. Thennnnnnn Mpc Live Square. Next up, Mpc live square + speaker. Thats about 4 years of Akai. Korg has been going har din the paint.

   Again, I know they are clones, knockoffs blah blah, heard it. Just saying, the work ethic is there and the execution is consistent.

   1. They’re doing the actual work of design. If you steal people’s designs it’s a lot faster.

      1. To be fair, this isn’t the first time someone has copied a Moog design….

         1. Exactly Goobs! I’d dare say a majority of all 5U and eurorack manufacturers have copied at least one Moog circuit design, often many, and often don’t give credit to the source. And even the much revered ARP tried to copy the Moog ladder filter back in the day and tried to hide the fact by encasing it in black epoxy.

            1. The critical difference is that no 5U or Eurorack manufacturer apart from Music Tribe has appropriated Moog’s entire modular product line. They appropriated the look, functionality and the naming. And they’ve done the same to ARP and Roland.

               No other company in the history of the music industry has behaved like this, and it’s polarizing. Some think it’s completely okay and Hr. B is the second coming, while others see his as a thieving charlatan.

               1. Eh, I dunno about that. I couldn’t give two shits about Behringer, and I’m also not particularly interested in analog modular. But Synthesizers.com sticks out as at least one company that has been doing Moog clones for at least 20 years.

                  1. Synthesizers.com has never made Moog system clones.

                     Synthesizers.com really created the modern MU standard, by keeping the good things about old Moogs (the analog sound, full size knobs & connections, natural materials, etc) and fixing all the bad things (tuning instability, weird power requirements, unnecessary patching complexity, inconsistent naming, army-surplus components, 10″ deep modules, etc).

                     Out of probably a hundred modules or so that they make, there’s just a handful that are clones of Moog modules (sequencing modules, Moog filter, etc). The rest are new designs, and they’re generally really good.

                     Same with most other MU makers – like Corsynth, STG & Moon – they follow the Synthesizers.com standard, not the Moog standard, and they make original modules, not clones.

                     Not 100% sure, but I think Club of the Knobs and SynthWerks may be the only companies making Moog system clones.

                     1. Well, Synthesizers.com created their own variation of the Moog standard by doing things in a way that were less expensive to manufacture and easier for mere mortals to afford (and with reliable order fulfillment!) and I would call that the DotCom standard. “MU” (a term coined by Eric of STG Soundlabs) stands for “Moog Unit” and was only initially intended to refer to the 2.125″ panel width increments that Moog used/uses, but has since evolved to pretty much mean any module that can be mounted in a DotCom cabinet and powered without modifications or adapters. (more or less and yes, many exceptions exist!) I know all of this is picky, but I’m a “frothing at the mouth synth nerd” and don’t know how else to respond! 😉

                        Anyways, Synth-Werk, Mos-Lab, and COTK more or less are the companies currently making the closest clones of Moog modules and systems that I know of. (none are a 100% exact clone of the Moog originals or reissues but most of the time are close enough for all practical purposes) There were a couple other Moog-cloners in the dark past before the “modular renaissance” took off . . .I can’t remember the name of one . . he was in New York I think and he originally had a “Moog like name” but changed it when Bob Moog was trying to get his namesake back. The other was Don Martin’s Moog company, who refused to give up the name for Bob.

                        As for all the rest . . . there are LOTS of circuits that were designed by more often than not uncredited designers lurking behind the panels of popular brands!

      2. Korg have been struggling to remake synths (MS-20 FS, 2600) they already own, or even synths they own the rights to (Arp) for about ten years. They hum and haw and release limited editions, small limited runs or mini versions of classic synths. The exact opposite of what people want.

         So actually owning or designing the synth in the first place has little to do with how quickly you can get it to marketplace.

         1. The challenge is that what people *want* is to be able to buy really cheap stuff. I want to find a $100 Jupiter 8 at an estate sale, I’d be grinning for a week.

            That doesn’t give Behringer the right to appropriate famous product and company names and release “the most authentic recreations.”

            1. “That doesn’t give Behringer the right to appropriate famous product and company names and release “the most authentic recreations.””

               Actually it does. This is why patents exist and have an expiration date. The same exact reason you can buy cheaper generic Tylenol as opposed to more expensive name brand Tylenol despite the generic being just as effective.

               1. Mike – patents have nothing to do with rights to product or company names.

                  Patents are designed to protect the rights to new inventions, and are limited to 20 years.

                  Names, logos and trade dress (‘look’) aren’t covered by patents that expire, they’re covered by other trade laws. That’s why nobody can copy Coke’s bottle or logo, even though they’ve been around for more than 20 years.

                  It’s why Behringer uses ‘sound alike’ names (Monopoly vs Mono/Poly) and ‘look alike’ designs (moving the buttons around on the RD-8).

         2. To be fair they have amassed a more than decent lineup of ‘proper’ fullsize synths over the last 2-3 years. Including (but not limited to) synths like the Nautilus, Prologue, Wavestate, Opsix, Modwave…

            All fine instruments in my book. This seems to be the kind of stuff that Behringer can’t do or won’t do (for whatever reason).

            1. Korg probably has the best lineup of polysynths out there right now, because they are great synths and each uses different types of synthesis.

         3. “Korg have been struggling to remake synths (MS-20 FS, 2600) they already own, or even synths they own the rights to (Arp) for about ten years.”

            How has Korg been struggling? The MS-20 and 2600 were both massive hits, and they’ve got the best lineup of synths out there, so your comment makes no sense.

            What you’re really saying is that there’s a big market for cheap knockoffs, and you don’t get why companies don’t make stripped down versions of their own stuff.

            It just doesn’t make sense for Korg or Sequential or Moog to make stripped-down versions of their greatest hits. These companies all have made some classic synths and have pretty good brand reputations. Making stripped-down versions ?would just devalue their classic synths and devalue their brand.

            It makes sense for a company like Behringer to make cheap knockoffs, though, because they don’t have a respected brand. They haven’t made any classic synths. They haven’t invested in pioneering anything in synthesis.

            The only reason anybody would be interested in Behringer gear is for cheap knockoffs.

            “So actually owning or designing the synth in the first place has little to do with how quickly you can get it to marketplace.”

            You act like Behringer doesn’t have a reputation for announcing a bunch of stuff years before they can actually ship it.

7. Having learned synthesis a long time ago on a Moog Model IIIC, I was thrilled when Moog reintroduced the III series a few years ago, albeit at a price beyond my reach. If these Behringer modules capture the sound and are of reliable build quality, they could be a real game changer. $3,500 for a Model 55 / III series? Yes please!

8. They can’t even write press releases without obviously copying and pasting everything…

9. As to working with other Eurorack modules, they copied the old S-Trigger format for envelope generation and this is not compatible with Eurorack. You need either a DIY converter cable or a commercially made one. Why did they just copy this? Faithful reproduction or just blindly following the past? They provide only one, very limited MIDI-CV module. Yes, it’s relatively cheap. It claims to have the original Moog sound, but this is 2021.

   1. Use a Behringer 961 to convert V-Trig to S-trig and back again. The value of S(witch)-trig originally was it could be taken directly off the keyboard logic and combined with other non-concurrent trigger sources without multiplexing (not multiplying). This was due to it’s wire-OR logic.

      Thus, you could use the simple 4 controller selectors (CPA3-0, 992) to select the appropriate CV controller for each VCO bank, LFO, and filter section, and wire-OR the trigger together.

      The 961 is also useful for combining 960 triggers for rhythmic applications. So, yeah S-trig is neat!

      1. Actually use a Moog 961 or COPY. Let’s give credit to Bob and stop the appropriation. This is what people are very tired of.

         1. You can. I’m not going to play that game.

   2. Behringer seems to put as little thought as possible into their clones – basically just copying the circuit boards from old gear and slapping a panel on it.

      I’ve got one of their Model D clones, and it’s just ridiculous that they didn’t spend 10 more minutes on the design to make it easy to access the tuning pots. You have to disassemble the whole synth just to tune it, which is insane for an analog synth.

      I think people look past the design problems and incompatibilities, though, because they know that they’re buying a cheap copy and don’t want to pay more for a better synth.

10. These Eurorack copies just highlight how much more bang for the buck you can get from Moog’s own Eurorack synths.

    For less than what you’d pay for Behringer’s Model 15 copy, you can get a Moog Sound Studio, which is a way more powerful Eurorack system – with more patch points, more synthesis options, two step sequencers, the ability to polyphonic stuff, etc.

    And for the price of the Behringer System 55, you could get a Mother-32, a DFAM and a Subharmonicon. And you’d have a much more powerful modular and still have $1,600 left in the bank.

    These Behringer systems only make sense if your main priority is getting a cheap copy of the originals, but not if your main priority is getting a lot of synth for your money.

    1. I recommend to just get them all; DFAM, SubH, M32, System B55. They all work well together. If you combine these +/- 5VDC CV systems with normal eurorack stuff, then you’ll need those attenuators to attn signal levels.

       1. If you’ve got a DFAM, Subharmonicon & Mother-32, though, what would spending close to another 4k on a B55 get you?

          The Fixed Filter Bank?

          1. A really useful subtractive synthesis rig. Thx!

    2. I agree that buying a semimodular is usually more sensible than buying a small fully modular system. But to be fair, it’s comparing apples and oranges, because it’s not the same: for fully modular you need all the individual PCBs, individual power connectors etc etc.. (This to me is a general reason why modular is really inefficient, financially.)

       My guess is that Behringer aren’t expecting to sell very many of these, but it doesn’t cost much to put together the announcement and put the modules in boxes. They’ll sell a few and get a bit of extra publicity for the individual modules too. (But what do I know, maybe there is a mass market who dearly wanted a Moog Model 15 and don’t mind skimping on the brand.)

11. I realize $3600 is a bargain compared to the real thing, but you could get most of a Moog mother ecosystem for that. And it’s pushing against Make Noise Shared System territory. For $4200 you can get a portable dotcom system which obviously has fewer modules but is a premium, hand made full-sized instrument. Is there a market for this?

    1. Why would I want hand made basement assembly, over a professionally managed, modern, process controlled, factory built product? I’ve over 50 of these modules, and the build quality is good and extremely consistent. Yes, there are several cost reductions, but they’re rational ones literally nobody picks up on. Even if you beat them over the head with it.

       You can buy the module complement of System 55 for the tax you would pay on a new Moog instrument today. It’s not the same, but the cost difference is huge.

       Sadly, the eurorack ecosystem is so vast, you don’t know all of what’s there until >1 year into it. This short cuts folks entry into traditional modular subtractive synthesis.

       1. I think Jason’s point was that you can get a more powerful modular – with modern manufacturing and modern build – with Moog’s Eurorack modules or with a Make Noise system.

          Not sure where you get the idea that Moog or Make Noise hand make Euro modules in their basement.

          The big Moog modular reissues ARE made by hand, but they’re intended to be exact recreations of the originals, built using the same processes that Bob Moog used 50 years ago.

          I’ve talked to the guy that manages that process for Moog, Gene Stopp, and he had wild stories about the lengths that they went to in order to reissue the old modulars. They had to reverse engineer the whole process, because nobody builds electronics like they did in 1970. A circuit board from one of the new modules exactly matches the originals and the components on the circuit boards are new old stock parts and so on.

          The only reason to get a Model 15, 35 or 55 system is if you want to get the exact sound and experience that people did with the originals, and that’s what the reissues offer.

          If you aren’t obsessive enough to want one of those reissues, though, why the hell would you want to spend so much money for a Behringer copy, when can get a real Moog Eurorack system, that does more, for less money?

          Or, like Jason suggested, spend a bit more and get a Make Noise Shared System, and have one of the most powerful, well-respected modular systems ever created.

          These Behringer systems seem like they’re designed mainly to separate noobs from their money.

       2. because the build quality is “good”. We are not in the business of “good”, “good” means nothing to the music industry, It should be either amazing or a complete mess.

          1. What?

             There is literally a massive spectrum of instruments ranging from “complete mess” to “good” and then to “amazing”

             “Good” is probably the largest part on that spectrum

       3. Your comments make it seem like you are on their marketing team. Not objective.

12. I don’t know what the fascination with the old Moog systems is. Nothing is attenuated, so you have to patch all modulation to vcas, the simplest patches become a big spider web. The cloned Roland stuff is much more advanced. This is really the grandpa way of doing things.

    1. No. That’s not right at all. There are manual attenuators there – which you really don’t need all that many for a system this size.

       1. There are attenuators but they are separate. They are not where you need them (inside the module). Spiderweb for no reason.
          The osc driver thing is the other drawback.
          I Wouldn’t want that. It’s an to old design.

13. Except for the simulated wood end panels, this is just a marketing bundle of pre-existing modules. There is none of the considerable hidden wiring, trunking, and switches that makes a Moog ‘System’ an instrument. Anyone could have counted up the modules and ordered them from a picture no a System 10/15/35/55 – they didn’t even get the module count right.

    I do love their Moog clone modules though, a couple of mods, redo the factory calibrations, and they work fine!

14. The biggest news here is that they apparently now have braces for putting 2 of their Mantis knock-offs together. That’s pretty sweet. Still waiting for my Eurorack GO board to crap out but if it makes it another 12 months, I might consider a second and, yet again, put absolutely no behringer modules in it.

15. Can’t say a**hole on this forum, got it. I wonder if you can say F*ck as in “This synth is f*cking awesome.”
    I’d love to know how many units of each cloned device they are selling. Or if folks in other countries care about the clone wars as much as the folks here, assuming everyones in the U.S. If Synthtopia UK is getting this much vitriol. I’m only aware of US cancel culture but it’d be interesting to know how other populations react these releases.

    1. Handsome Randy

       You can say a**hole all you like – just don’t engage in personal attacks.

       So the comment “The Behringer System 35 oscillators are tighter than my a**hole!” is fine, because maybe that’s your opinion and we encourage readers to share their opinions.

       But the comment “Handsome Randy is an a**hole!” isn’t going to fly, because its a personal attack on you.

       And readers come to Synthtopia to get their synth news, not to be attacked by f*cking a**holes. Right?

       1. This is the best thing I’ve read on this site in ages.

16. For Gods sake they are making synths available to all not snobs with knobs.

17. Wow – Imagine what I can do with $20K!! Delusions of synth grandeur!!

18. bald middle-aged man trigger warning – first world problem 😀

19. Why is everyone mad that Behringer is offering all this great equipment at an amazing price, if you want to pay thousands of dollars more and get a real Moog, go ahead.

20. > As much as this forums hates Behringer.
    > They had a plan and are executing.

    lol, the nazis had a plan, too, what to do with the jews. google wannsee conference.
    important note for the admin synthhead: i am NOT comparing uli to hitler, but as an antifa fangirl from germany i wanted to show how ridiculous randy´s argument is.

    1. You triggered the Godwin point, congratulations!

21. It makes sense that they are offering system bundles but I think they REALLY should have put a more effort into the cases so they look like the originals? Especially the System 15 should be a tall narrow case at least, even if they didn’t make it tolex covered! And the 35 and 55 should at least have fake wood cabinets. And all cases need to have CP format rows at the bottom. ?

22. Synthtopia needs way less Uli Behringer and way more Uli Kunkel.

23. I’d love this, but I won’t support this company

24. I feel naive asking this, but I’m puzzled: whether Moog or Behringer, are these modules really built using old circuit designs? I understand that some people desire the *exact* sound of the original from years past. But didn’t these older modules tend to have issues with stability and tuning and whatnot? I would think that years and years of innovation would lead to new, more stable and reliable designs? Moog (etc) 5U module stuff *looks* awesome. But how easy is it to use nowadays?

    1. The Moog reissues are made like they just restarted the production line. They use the same old-school circuit boards, vintage electrical parts, through-hole hand-soldering, the whole 9 yards.

       So the Moog systems look and sound exactly like a vintage system.

       The Behringer modules are not really straight clones of the originals. One of the points raised on FB was that Behringer copied the modern copies of Moog’s designs, instead of the originals. So the modules are going to sound like other cheap copies of Moog modules.

       Neither is going to be as stable and reliable as a good modern analog, but the whole reason people love the originals is for their old-school analog sound.

25. The only module I like is CM1A Midi-to-CV/GATE converter
    https://youtu.be/-A2GJOWOu0U

26. this is not going to hurt moog or its legacy, nor is it going to hurt consumers.

    1. i received a few bricks in the mail during my brief love affair with euro, and as a result, i couldn’t wait to get out of euro and sell everything. i can absolutely guarantee you that having another inferior manufacturer in the euro game will hurt consumers and drive people away from euro.

27. I find these releases funny as I just had finished a Bog-system 55 knockoff at ModularGrid. Premade systems may be a good starting point for some. There are some modules missing – some of them don’t matter – but I would like to add the AM993 Signal Router (AMsynths – currently unavailable) – before starting the project. Also I agree that the MIDI-CV thingy for such a thing is too flimsy. It could do very well with a Polyend 2 interface. So I added that one to the plans. There are ways to get portamento and stuff – but I think an easy way out is to add the Glide/Noise moduler from the Midi-mod from AHJ-synths. The Behringer case does not appeal to me.

    The original is set within wooden cabinets. And it should have no metal rails. My project will most certainly start with building the cases (oak or walnut – oak is easier to get here in Norway). Taking some care making the case sides not too thick – it’s supposed to look like a mini system 55. .. And maybe I’d cannibalise a nice keyboard controller and make a wooden case and a keyboard garage for it. Currently my project is set to cost me less than the prefabricated system from Behringer. The wooden project will cost me hours, but no money – my friend recently cut down some trees..

28. Holy Moog Systems Batman!!! Moog Systems for the masses!! Gotham City will never be the same! Instead of big screen TV we’ll be able to have a Moog system in every room!

29. It strikes me that Behringer is not the first outfit to come along and make “Moog-like” modules. Remember Synth.com? Moon Modular? Etc. It always seemed to me that they were doing their bit to expand the horizons of electronic music. I’ve got no real gripe with any of them, including Behringer. I mean, do you really think Moog System 55 sales will be affected by the Behringer System 55? Personally: I doubt it.

    If nothing else: Moog etc have The Name. It’s like Porsche or Ferrari: “oooh, is that a Moog synthesizer?” “Err … not exactly …”[1] Anyone who *really* wants a Moog System 55 (or EMS Synthi etc) will dig up the money to buy one. To put it another way: *nobody* is going to say “I was going to buy a Moog System 55, but I bought a Behringer because it was cheaper.”

    I don’t know what’s going on in their minds, but I give Behringer some credit for allowing people on a budget to still get a small feel for vintage / classic gear that is simply forever out of reach.

    [1] Or: “ooh, baby, your Moog modular makes me sooo hot … wait … why does it say Behringer? I have to go, I just remembered I need to grout my bathtub tonight, bye!”

30. Uri Bellringer loves to complain he doesn’t get treated fairly even though he has an openly parasitic business model. It is very German to complain everyone hates you, conveniently forgetting that two world wars is as good a reason as any to not like a nation.

    1. Hmmm… I think you’ll find Uli Behringer is not German, but Swiss.
       I also think that’s a bit mean to German people, almost all of whom weren’t even born in the 1940’s.

       1. Forget banking for a moment. Who do you think sold all of those chocolates to the axis powers? I don’t think it was Cadbury. Not to mention the use of forced labor in chocolate factories and the bizarre, horrific working conditions – have you even seen the documentaries exposing the truth about Willy Wonka?

31. I can’t get over all the ‘negative waves’ here re this announcement. We are talking a System 55 clone (admittedly smaller in stature due to the use of Eurorack) for about $4800 AUD – compare that with trying to get an original (sell an internal organ) or even a ‘synthesizers.com’ modular – these Behringer modulars are an amazing bargain. The chance to get a System 55 in my studio was simply not there – until yesterday! I have no complaints about this announcement.

32. Oh Synthtopia, will you ever give up the knockoff thing and just call them clones? I thought not.

    Clones don’t need to be hand-assembled in a garage by boutique synth hipsters using nothing but the finest free-range organic transistors. Most electronics, including the deluxe and rather expensive Apple device I’m using to type this, are made out of cheap, surface-mount components and assembled in China.

    1. A clone is a 1:1 copy. None of these Behri synths are 1:1 copies. A lot of them would actually be better if they were.

33. Lol!!!!! Free range Organic Transistors!!!

34. The main thing though is that the moog stuff feels so quality. Behringer feels cheap. You get what you pay for. Somebody tell me I’m wrong.

35. I think the Poly D has a good build quality. Couldn’t afford a MiniMoog @ 3400.00 and up so, I think the Poly D is spot on for the price and value. Just don’t care for all the haters on both sides.

36. Moog really missed the boat here, they should have gone full Eurorack 5 years ago with individual modules (not complete synth voices and drum machines that are mountable in Eurorack cases).

37. Yup! They should have!